EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
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Prestwich_Blue said:
We don't know what will happen if we stay either.

The Euro could collapse or there could be a debt crisis in Portugal or a further one in Greece. There could be serious public disturbances in some countries.

There could be far right or far left governments elected that challenge the EU and its rules. We could be pushed into monetary & political union and have to leave anyway if we reject that.

Pretending everyone will live happily ever after if there's a 50.1% vote in favour of Remain is naive in the extreme. There's no guarantee that we can manage those risks if we stay in better than we manage any from leaving.

My great-grandparents were a young couple with a baby and took the risk of leaving what's now Ukraine in 1901. Life wasn't perfect there but it was what their families knew and it seemed a safer option to most of them to stay put and hope things got better. But they took the risk and endured a terrible journey to a country that didn't exactly welcome them warmly and where they didn't speak the language. There must have been times they longed to be back in their town in Ukraine, with their families but they stuck it out. And because they took that risk, they were still alive in 1945 as opposed to the 200 or so of their immediate relatives who were shot and gassed by the Nazis.
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Good point for keeping the borders open.
 
nellyonthewing said:
Cameron thought he could pressure the EU into major concessions-they called his bluff. Cameron now wants a Remain majority so he can say "look I achieved this". The EU will not change ,it will continue to control and grow.
Our forefathers fought to protect us from European tyranny. All we have to do is vote Leave to liberate Europe .
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Must have done it on our own then we no help from the Allies.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
We don't know what will happen if we stay either.

The Euro could collapse or there could be a debt crisis in Portugal or a further one in Greece. There could be serious public disturbances in some countries.

There could be far right or far left governments elected that challenge the EU and its rules. We could be pushed into monetary & political union and have to leave anyway if we reject that.
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..and that would be the time to leave, not now.

If we left now there are a number of scenarios which are all bad:
i) It could be the start of the implosion of the whole EU project due to the requirement for the richer countries to put more in the compensate for us being out leading to other countries following us out. The uncertainty would last for years.
ii) The EU carries on and they refuse to offer us reasonable access to the free market unless we accept Schengen and free movement of Labour like Switzerland and Norway.
iii) Even if we exit and imports / exports aren't affected much we would lose influence.

If we stay in:
i) There will be a short term boost to the economy due to the end of uncertainty.
ii) We will retain our influence.
iii) If it's a close vote there's a bit more of a chance that we won't get pissed about as much due to the potential for us pulling out later which no-one in Europe wants (that might be wishful thinking)
iv) If the EU goes far left or far right we can still get out later as we're not tied into the Euro.
v) Even if it all goes tits up and the EU collapses anyway we'd be no worse off than leaving now as we're not in the Eurozone and we wouldn't have lost the good will.
 
Jean Monnet 1888-1979. One of the founding members of the EU. "Europe's nation's should be guided towards the super state without their people's understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation."
 
nellyonthewing said:
Jean Monnet 1888-1979. One of the founding members of the EU. "Europe's nation's should be guided towards the super state without their people's understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation."
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He died 40 years ago and still not happened.
 
blueonblue said:
So you f*cking should be ;0), or you could see the light an not be in such poor company.
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worsleyweb said:
SWP - I thought you were for out? Give me 3 good reasons why we should stay? A la the Queen?
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Had to vote a few weeks past sorry.

For me, in my line of work, the main reason to stay is to avoid all my clients investments dropping 10-15% in the next twelve months and me having to hand hold throughout.
 
west didsblue said:
..and that would be the time to leave, not now.

If we left now there are a number of scenarios which are all bad:
i) It could be the start of the implosion of the whole EU project due to the requirement for the richer countries to put more in the compensate for us being out leading to other countries following us out. The uncertainty would last for years.
ii) The EU carries on and they refuse to offer us reasonable access to the free market unless we accept Schengen and free movement of Labour like Switzerland and Norway.
iii) Even if we exit and imports / exports aren't affected much we would lose influence.

If we stay in:
i) There will be a short term boost to the economy due to the end of uncertainty.
ii) We will retain our influence.
iii) If it's a close vote there's a bit more of a chance that we won't get pissed about as much due to the potential for us pulling out later which no-one in Europe wants (that might be wishful thinking)
iv) If the EU goes far left or far right we can still get out later as we're not tied into the Euro.
v) Even if it all goes tits up and the EU collapses anyway we'd be no worse off than leaving now as we're not in the Eurozone and we wouldn't have lost the good will.
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As it is its going to take 2-4 years to extricate ourselves from the EU. If we wait and the EU implodes it could take us down with it.
 
nellyonthewing said:
Jean Monnet 1888-1979. One of the founding members of the EU. "Europe's nation's should be guided towards the super state without their people's understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation."
Click to expand...

That will be the end of the Euros....at least we will get our transfer deals done quicker
 
nellyonthewing said:
By the Allies I take it you mean mainly USA,Canada, Australia ,New Zealand,South Africa ,Poles and Free French.
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Yup and we trade with the first 4, so no real change there, oh except they are in T-PP and trade will change with them shortly.

Yes the French, Poles, Balkans, Dutch, Greeks, Belgians, Luxembourg, Czechs, Slovaks and the resistances in others.
Not really fighting the whole of Europe were we.
 
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