Labour / Tory Party meltdown Referendum fallout

bluethrunthru said:
Eh? George W Bush and his administration knew only too well that 9/11 was fuck all to do with Saddam Hussain and the Iraqi's but for reasons I won;t go into here he abandoned the battlefield in Afghanistan to go on his private venture. He wanted a posse and wanted us in that posse. Some time before pledging to the UK population he wouldn't do that without there being various votes here and in the UN he unconditionally promised our armed forces to George personally. When asked had he done that he said no - so there's one lie.
When he wanted to go to war his Attorney General told him the premise for war made it a little bit illegal. They leaned on him and he changed his view. Blair denies this and says the Attorney General read it one way one day and the next decided he was totally wrong and that was all of his own accord - another lie
Then when Parliament started to get uppity and maybe not go with him - that pesky democracy thing they wanted to bring to Iraq - the famous dossier was produced. It did contain inaccuracies and placed undue emphasis on certain elements giving minor things undue prominence. The biggest example is that the 45 minute claim referred to strikes on Akrotiri airbase not London as that pamphlet of untruth the Sun thundered the next day. Blair has always denied this - another lie?
It just goes on - I want the **** dragged over the coals naked for the untold death and misery his lies and dissemination have caused - I have no problem with going to war as long as its a just war entered into knowing the truth.
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I expect he will be savaged over the lack of preparations for the aftermath, heavily criticised for exaggerating the case for war, but not accused of anything criminal.
 
worsleyweb said:
And I stand by them both 100 percent. I wouldnt speak to a Corbyn fan in real life so goodbye.
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The perfect fumble said:
Corbyn is a ****, so the majority of the party who voted for him must be cunts, he knows this is a fact because he's proud to say he never talks to Corbyn supporters in real life.

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And now he won't speak to them on here.
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Lol, fair enough, but I'd love a demographic breakdown of the 300,000 odd that propelled this bloke past all known barriers of common sense.
 
The perfect fumble said:
Corbyn is a ****, so the majority of the party who voted for him must be cunts, he knows this is a fact because he's proud to say he never talks to Corbyn supporters in real life.

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And now he won't speak to them on here.
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I don't think the general public voted for him! 300000 left wing militants got him in. The man is an embarrassment and a very dangerous man. As I said 95 percent of the general public think he is a complete wanker.

Probably not in the circles you mix in mind!!
 
qatarman said:
I find the mind set of Corbynites both dillusional and scary. If you do not follow the faith you are a Blairite. The arrogance that the party is there to represent party members is flawed. It is not. It is here to represent the wider communities and the voiceless. Some of the nasty stuff happening in local parties remind me of the cultism in the dark days of militant (I was once pinned to a wall by a thug whilst a local council member shouted in my face) let's not kid ourselves. The party is split top to bottom at local level. Those who oppose Corbyn are branded. Many do not speak up. The radical purists are happy in their self satisfied smugness. They do not want power to do good. They just want to be right. I believe Blaire guilty as charged re Iraq. Corbyn wants his day to call for his prosecution in parliament next Wednesday. Meanwhile the party can go to hell...
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1: I have to wandervogel... sorry....try again.... I have to *wonder*: Is the sight of thousands of people gathering 'spontaneously' to support a politician in his intra-party struggle for power designed to make me feel comfortable? Because, actually, it kinda Freikorps me out....sorry... it *freaks* me out.

2:Any MP is responsible to his constituency and the country. His/her mandate comes from winning a majority in a parliamentary election/by-election. How could anything be more clear in law, more central to the constitution of United Kingdom. The party officials claiming MPs are subverting democratic process.... oooh. OOOOH! They've got some nerve.

3: Whilst I'm at it. It strikes me is that Jez's 'new politics' were supposed to be about moving beyond cynical partisan points scoring, the cliché of two-party politics. And yet, the most common thing I've heard from prominent figures supporting Corbyn is 'It's disgusting! We should be laying into the Tories while they are in disarray!'. Similarly, they say the attempt to replace Corbyn is a symptom of 'an inward looking' Labour party. Yeah. Don't know where to begin with that. Finally, and most damingly, some 50% of the interviewed labour party officials upporting Corbyn have scouse accents. The persecution rests, your honour.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
Lol, fair enough, but I'd love a demographic breakdown of the 300,000 odd that propelled this bloke past all known barriers of common sense.
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The Labour party (any party really) has to stand for something. The leadership of a party has to straddle what a party stands for and what the wider electorate will vote for. The Blairite straddle became so wide they lost their toehold in the party, they rolled up the usual Tory-lite candidates before the party last year expecting to be rubber stamped and they got their arse handed to them.

Corbyn the man is immaterial, it's what he stands for that matters, not everything, he'll never get the party to support getting rid of Trident, but he stands for enough for the party to rally round him, not out of personal support but, I repeat, because he stands for something a large section of the party believes in as well.
 
The perfect fumble said:
The Labour party (any party really) has to stand for something. The leadership of a party has to straddle what a party stands for and what the wider electorate will vote for. The Blairite straddle became so wide they lost their toehold in the party, they rolled up the usual Tory-lite candidates before the party last year expecting to be rubber stamped and they got their arse handed to them.

Corbyn the man is immaterial, it's what he stands for that matters, not everything, he'll never get the party to support getting rid of Trident, but he stands for enough for the party to rally round him, not out of personal support but, I repeat, because he stands for something a large section of the party believes in as well.
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Seems he is prepare to reconsider some of his beliefs to hold on to power he is a career MP nothing more nothing less
 
So, allegedly Corbyn is going nowhere until the Chilcott Report is published as he wants to slaughter Blair in Parliament. Sound like a good bloke to me!
 
2sheikhs said:
Like it or not, a lot of the electorate are very superficial. Some people look at a party leader and envisage them representing us on a world stage. Corbyn isn't easy on the eye and has no charisma. Neither does eagle. I think a lot of people have lost faith in politicians who are out of touch and have been a serial chairperson in Islington from some fucking pointless pressure group.
The fact that he lives in a modest house doesn't make him "one of us". As far as I'm concerned, it makes him look like a patronising twat. I dare say he goes to farmfoods now and then in the hope that someone takes photos.
He's a fake and his ideas of uncontrolled immigration won't directly effect him or his mates. It's irrelevant what his policies are though to be honest. There's nothing appealing or statesman like about him. He can connect to people with a green agenda, idealistic students and educated snobs with a conscience who practice intellectual masturbation. Those three niches are a minority. The wider public don't want to know.
By the same rule, it wouldn't matter what policies Dan Jarvis has. (unless they were pretty outrageous)
He'd make a connection with the electorate that Corbyn could only dream of. Not only has he seen what goes on in the real world, he's fought (literally) for his country. It doesn't matter that he was an officer as opposed to a squaddie, in fact, that strengthens his case because it shows genuine leadership qualities.
If labour decide to go for another talking shop, career politician, they'll lose what's left of their traditional base for ever.
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Yeah, that's why the 'traditional base' voted overwhelmingly for him innit...?
 
stonerblue said:
Yeah, that's why the 'traditional base' voted overwhelmingly for him innit...?
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No they didn't , members did, Nothing to do with traditional base as most normal electors aren't members of any party. They are the ones who elect governments though. Labour Party members just seem to do whatever's best for electing another Tory government.
 
They are gradually losing the base to ukip though, Stonerblue.
I've always worked in factories, warehouses and building sites. The ordinary working man that labour need to vote for them has the kind of views on race, religion, gender and sexuality that puts them at odds with labour's core beliefs.
They're from "labour" families though. Dad, grandad etc always voted for them.
They have one last chance to appoint someone they can identify with.
 
blueparrot said:
No they didn't , members did, Nothing to do with traditional base as most normal electors aren't members of any party. They are the ones who elect governments though. Labour Party members just seem to do whatever's best for electing another Tory government.
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By 'traditional base' i mean party members and not the Parliamentary Labour Party.
250,000 plus and the runner up got 80,000
 
stonerblue said:
By 'traditional base' i mean party members and not the Parliamentary Labour Party.
250,000 plus and the runner up got 80,000
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And I mean the members aren't the traditional base. Millions of Labour voters are, and as the PLP are the ones that have to be elected by the real traditional base ,to be able to deliver any Labour policy. They are the ones that should have the major say on who leads them. Not the unelected, self appointed, self indulgent members, that don't seem to have much interest in winning an election. Only in appointing a leader that doesn't upset them.
 
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