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Labour / Tory Party meltdown Referendum fallout
- Thread starter whp.blue
- Start date
gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
I'm personally backing Leadsom, as I think it would be significantly better for politics in this country, long term. Her and Corbyn as the leaders of the two main parties would inevitably lead to a seismic realignment of the party political landscape, with a centrist party emerging that the moderate, temperate majority in this country could rally round. It would also make an early general election much more likely.It's a genuinely sorry state of affairs when you're pining for Theresa May to become Prime Minister. David Cameron's governorship almost seems like a halcyon era, and that's a pretty sobering thought.
Our political system is broken, but it needs something like Leadsom as PM to properly finish it off imo.
Gray
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In respect of Corbyn what mandate has he actually got for attempting to be the next Labour PM?
In the Parliamentary Elections of 2015 there were 46,420,413 people eligible to vote.
To be eligible to stand in the Labour Party leadership contest you needed the support of 35 MP's, Corbyn got 36 nominations from the total of 232 MP's.
The voting was for Party members, registered supporters and affiliated supporters and there was a turnout of 76.3% with 422,664 votes cast of which Corbyn got 251,417 (59.5%).
Yes he was voted in by a landslide that amounted to 0.54% of the UK electorate, that is why he will not be the next Prime Minister.
In the Parliamentary Elections of 2015 there were 46,420,413 people eligible to vote.
To be eligible to stand in the Labour Party leadership contest you needed the support of 35 MP's, Corbyn got 36 nominations from the total of 232 MP's.
The voting was for Party members, registered supporters and affiliated supporters and there was a turnout of 76.3% with 422,664 votes cast of which Corbyn got 251,417 (59.5%).
Yes he was voted in by a landslide that amounted to 0.54% of the UK electorate, that is why he will not be the next Prime Minister.
law74
Well-Known Member
He won't be the next prime minister because the current prime minister has tabled his resignation and the Tories are having an election to decide their next party leader who will be prime minister.
Corbyn will be the PM after that, regardless of an early general election or not, & many of those in the PLP that are opposed to him won't have a seat to defend.
Corbyn will be the PM after that, regardless of an early general election or not, & many of those in the PLP that are opposed to him won't have a seat to defend.
gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
You have absolutely no concept of what lies in the hearts and minds of the British electorate if you are convinced that Corbyn WILL be Prime Minister of this country. Just because you desperately want something to happen, doesn't make it any more likely that it will.He won't be the next prime minister because the current prime minister has tabled his resignation and the Tories are having an election to reside their next party leader who will be prime minister.
Corbyn will be the PM after that, regardless of an early general election or not, & many of those in the PLP that are opposed to him won't have a seat to defend.
law74
Well-Known Member
You have absolutely no concept of what lies in the hearts and minds of the British electorate if you are convinced that Corbyn WILL be Prime Minister of this country. Just because you desperately want something to happen, doesn't make it any more likely that it will.
The extent Murdoch, Desmond, Harmsworth and the Barclay brothers attack him shows that he has a very real chance of success.
If he wed really unelectable then why are the right wing media so scared of him?
If he was really unelectable why are so many from all generations getting behind him?
"The times they are a changing"
Chancy Termites
Well-Known Member
The extent Murdoch, Desmond, Harmsworth and the Barclay brothers attack him shows that he has a very real chance of success.
If he wed really unelectable then why are the right wing media so scared of him?
If he was really unelectable why are so many from all generations getting behind him?
"The times they are a changing"
I genuinely don't believe that "the media barons" have nearly as much effect on public opinion as you suggest. Years ago, when lots of people bought newspapers, and before there was the Internet, you may have had a point. Nowadays, they're more interested in following certain strands of public opinion to try to prop their dying industry up.
gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
I seem to remember Michael Foot getting a hard time from the Sun et al. It's their default mode to attack the left. It shouldn't be viewed as fear, but rather, inveterate nastiness.The extent Murdoch, Desmond, Harmsworth and the Barclay brothers attack him shows that he has a very real chance of success.
If he wed really unelectable then why are the right wing media so scared of him?
If he was really unelectable why are so many from all generations getting behind him?
"The times they are a changing"
'So many from all generations'. Where is your evidence of that, to an extent where it will influence the outcome of a GE?
I accept the times, they are a changing, but wishful thinking will only get you so far.
urban genie
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Having watched corbyn on Marr and eagles on Peston I have come to the conclusion that both are bobbins, but she didn't seem to have any answers except "he isn't a leader" and that he lost the EU ref which I think was the failing or more than just him.
She has no chance of winning a GE just like jezza. Labour need to sweep the lot out watson, eagles, corbyn , bradshaw etc and get the new intake more prominently involved.
She has no chance of winning a GE just like jezza. Labour need to sweep the lot out watson, eagles, corbyn , bradshaw etc and get the new intake more prominently involved.
law74
Well-Known Member
Party membership, affiliates & supporters up from 180,000 to 600,000, are you suggesting that they are all from the one age group?
That's a heck of a lot more people to knock on doors, hand out leaflets and campaign for Labour at the next GE.
The last poll I seen had a divided Labour just ahead, when the blairites realise that their experiment is over and had failed, the party will unite (with or without their membership) & the anti-austerity message will encourage many non-voters to register and vote, and they won't be voting for more cuts, more privatization, more austerity
That's a heck of a lot more people to knock on doors, hand out leaflets and campaign for Labour at the next GE.
The last poll I seen had a divided Labour just ahead, when the blairites realise that their experiment is over and had failed, the party will unite (with or without their membership) & the anti-austerity message will encourage many non-voters to register and vote, and they won't be voting for more cuts, more privatization, more austerity
I
I
inbetween
Guest
In respect of Corbyn what mandate has he actually got for attempting to be the next Labour PM?
In the Parliamentary Elections of 2015 there were 46,420,413 people eligible to vote.
To be eligible to stand in the Labour Party leadership contest you needed the support of 35 MP's, Corbyn got 36 nominations from the total of 232 MP's.
The voting was for Party members, registered supporters and affiliated supporters and there was a turnout of 76.3% with 422,664 votes cast of which Corbyn got 251,417 (59.5%).
Yes he was voted in by a landslide that amounted to 0.54% of the UK electorate, that is why he will not be the next Prime Minister.
He is finished because if he cannot get enough support from MP's he cannot form a shadow cabinet and If they cannot form a shadow cabinet then you will potentially see the SNP sitting in opposition. He quite simply has to go because no matter his mandate if he has no MP's he cannot do a single thing in opposition let alone government. This country desperately needs a strong opposition, an opposition a lot of people voted for at the last election and not this movement which represents the thinking of 0.5% of the country.
I'm personally backing Leadsom, as I think it would be significantly better for politics in this country, long term. Her and Corbyn as the leaders of the two main parties would inevitably lead to a seismic realignment of the party political landscape, with a centrist party emerging that the moderate, temperate majority in this country could rally round. It would also make an early general election much more likely.
Our political system is broken, but it needs something like Leadsom as PM to properly finish it off imo.
Would an early general election help an emerging centrist party? Wouldn't they need 3-4 years to set up and get organised? The frightening scenario would be that either Leadsom or Corbyn could win that election.
urban genie
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Party membership, affiliates & supporters up from 180,000 to 600,000, are you suggesting that they are all from the one age group?
That's a heck of a lot more people to knock on doors, hand out leaflets and campaign for Labour at the next GE.
The last poll I seen had a divided Labour just ahead, when the blairites realise that their experiment is over and had failed, the party will unite (with or without their membership) & the anti-austerity message will encourage many non-voters to register and vote, and they won't be voting for more cuts, more privatization, more austerity
And if the coup suceeds expect that to drop again, I know at least 6-7 labour memebers who said they will stop their membership if the PLP cheat the memebership of their voice, and fiddle it so Corbyn cannot stand. I will quit my membership if if this happens and not vote labour again.
It would be better if the coup leaders stepped back as well as the corbynista and let the new blood not tainted by blairism or bennites start to come to the fore and bring the party forward on a left wing social just mandate. whether thats dan jarvis or clive lewis or whoever, Eagle is not the answer just as much as jeremy isn't
law74
Well-Known Member
Would an early general election help an emerging centrist party? Wouldn't they need 3-4 years to set up and get organised? The frightening scenario would be that either Leadsom or Corbyn could win that election.
Depends on what happens with the electoral expences fraud investigation, if 24 Tory MPs are jailed then an early GE I would think is almost certain & would leave no time for a new party to get organised
law74
Well-Known Member
And if the coup suceeds expect that to drop again, I know at least 6-7 labour memebers who said they will stop their membership if the PLP cheat the memebership of their voice, and fiddle it so Corbyn cannot stand. I will quit my membership if if this happens and not vote labour again.
It would be better if the coup leaders stepped back as well as the corbynista and let the new blood not tainted by blairism or bennites start to come to the fore and bring the party forward on a left wing social just mandate. whether thats dan jarvis or clive lewis or whoever, Eagle is not the answer just as much as jeremy isn't
I believe that the coup leaders require a very large number of members to leave, the same way they removed many on the left of the party after the rise of "new labour".
The elections for the NEC will be very interesting as if Momentum can unseat progress members it could change a lot within the party.
Prestwich_Blue
Well-Known Member
We had all this in the 1970's and 1980's. "The Labour Party needs to be more left wing as it's what the electorate wants". Look where that got them.You have absolutely no concept of what lies in the hearts and minds of the British electorate if you are convinced that Corbyn WILL be Prime Minister of this country. Just because you desperately want something to happen, doesn't make it any more likely that it will.
law74
Well-Known Member
We had all this in the 1970's and 1980's. "The Labour Party needs to be more left wing as it's what the electorate wants". Look where that got them.
I think you will find that economic inequality in the country has had a radical change since then, & very many of the electorate want this addressed, and a left leaning Labour government is the only way this will happen
Prestwich_Blue
Well-Known Member
It was during the height of Thatcherism. If you couldn't get a left-wing government then, you're never going to get one.I think you will find that economic inequality in the country has had a radical change since then, & very many of the electorate want this addressed, and a left leaning Labour government is the only way this will happen
meeesh
Well-Known Member
I try not to get too involved with the politics of this country these days,however having been brought up in a working class town,and surrounded by several other exact towns,my family have always been firmly in the Labour camp,which has carried on through generations,but to think what Blair has done is surely making people think why.
This Corbyn comes across as a right dick,but he's no different than any on the other side,and without being sexist,but to think there could be a woman leader very soon,in both parties in this country,and one across the pond,I fear for the whole world,we will all be Russians in 20 years,they will take over.......
This Corbyn comes across as a right dick,but he's no different than any on the other side,and without being sexist,but to think there could be a woman leader very soon,in both parties in this country,and one across the pond,I fear for the whole world,we will all be Russians in 20 years,they will take over.......
urban genie
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We had all this in the 1970's and 1980's. "The Labour Party needs to be more left wing as it's what the electorate wants". Look where that got them.
The thing is the membership isn't far left or calling for a far left party, just a socialist party with a strong sense of social justice. The party moved so centre right in the last 20 years that it shifted poltical mindset and it became the normal centre ground. This makes corbyn running on an anti austerity ticket and talking about fairness and spreading the wealth sound like some left wing lurch, that it isn't the PLP are just too out of touch with the mood of many people.
No one is sayung return to 70's left wing thinking, but copying the tories and clinging onto centre ground politics slightly to the right also alienates a lot of labour voters, as well as not convincing the marginals that they are any different to the tories enough to vote their way