Labour / Tory Party meltdown Referendum fallout

[urban genie]

"the clues in the fucking name" classic line

Jonathan Pie is excellent, also chunkymark tentds to rant but gets it spot on here

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

"the clues in the fucking name" classic line

Jonathan Pie is excellent, also chunkymark tentds to rant but gets it spot on here

He's absolutely right that millions want his policies, but millions ain't enough.

 

[inbetween]

Wouldn't the Lib Dems current reduced state make it extremely difficult for a breakaway Labour party and the Lib Dems to form a partnership? How would a partnership between possibly 100+ Labour MPs and 8 Lib Dems actually be constructed? What roles would the Lib Dems take in the Shadow Cabinet?

The Lib Dems would actually bring quite a lot to a new party if they joined en masse. All of their local councillors and local infrastructure would be invaluable. But would the Lib Dems be prepared to be subsumed into a Labour dominated breakaway party?

The Lib Dems are almost irrelevant, by voting numbers they are the 4th biggest party and falling away. Labour need to regain 98 swing seats from the conservatives unless they regain Scotland. The left vote is pretty much dead in this country and I can only see UKIP making further gains along with an SNP hold. Whether Labour can oust seats from the Tories is critical and they will have to win England to win and in the current climate that is just not going to happen.

If anything even if the Tories could not form a majority the trend suggests they certainly would be able to with UKIP. At the last election the ratio of UKIP to Labour votes was 1 for every 3 yet Labour managed 232 seats and UKIP 1. Obviously without Farage they might struggle but still it depends on what happens.

It is very interesting really because UKIP could very easily replace Labour in a lot of seats if the prospect of a Corbyn government doesn't appeal to traditional Labour voters. We know now for a start that at least 52% of them wanted to leave the EU, a very right leaning policy and they may want UKIP to be hold the government to account on that.

 

[cibaman]

Both the Tories and Labour need to have a good look at their Leadership election rules. Both contests have descended into pure farce, which inevitably will impact on the credibility and authority of the leader.

May has made a strong start (apart from appointing Johnson) and is making the most of her honeymoon period. It could be argued that she was the best (or least worse) candidate for the job, but it happened more by accident than any sensible process. And the minute that Brexit negotiations start to get difficult she will find that there is a residual resentment on the part of leaver MPs and the membership that the contest was curtailed before the members had the opportunity to vote for a leaver candidate.

Labour's barmy rules have meant that a few hundred thousand new members have joined, or paid for a vote, since the general election and have changed the direction of the party. They've followed their rules, so good luck to them. But a process where people can pay to vote is never going to produce a leader that the wider public will accept has the moral authority required for the job.

Considering how much the public are affected by the main party's choice of leader, it seems absurd that these decisions are taken in such strange ways.

At least the yanks will only have themselves to blame if they end up with Trump.

 

[inbetween]

Both the Tories and Labour need to have a good look at their Leadership election rules. Both contests have descended into pure farce, which inevitably will impact on the credibility and authority of the leader.

May has made a strong start (apart from appointing Johnson) and is making the most of her honeymoon period. It could be argued that she was the best (or least worse) candidate for the job, but it happened more by accident than any sensible process. And the minute that Brexit negotiations start to get difficult she will find that there is a residual resentment on the part of leaver MPs and the membership that the contest was curtailed before the members had the opportunity to vote for a leaver candidate.

Labour's barmy rules have meant that a few hundred thousand new members have joined, or paid for a vote, since the general election and have changed the direction of the party. They've followed their rules, so good luck to them. But a process where people can pay to vote is never going to produce a leader that the wider public will accept has the moral authority required for the job.

Considering how much the public are affected by the main party's choice of leader, it seems absurd that these decisions are taken in such strange ways.

At least the yanks will only have themselves to blame if they end up with Trump.

On the Tories that won't happen. I really think that May will go at it like a leaver simply because that is the decision the people took and now we have to see it out. Her attitude so far is not one of getting a soft deal but one that means we leave and properly leave which appeases both the . It is admiral she has straight away respected the vote for what it is and given Cameron could of stayed on and caused division, her appointment has instead completely united the party.

Labour are in turmoil because not only did they support Remain and lost but they also have a leader who 75% of the parliamentary element do not support. You cannot form a shadow government without parliamentary support. Corbyn is never going to unite the party and whilst the membership gives him the mandate he will never be able to form a credible shadow government let alone a full one. I think in the end it will end up eventually in resignations of the whip and who knows the Tories could extend their majority.

 

[malg]

Hahaha......he's better than most stand up comedians I've seen.

 

[whp.blue]

Unelectable :/

How does getting more labour voters in an already safe seat show you are electable in our fptp system?

The tories on here made this point when Corbyn was elected leader the best he can hope for is a bigger turn out in labour areas with no chance of power
Thats where all these new party members are from safe labour seats

He needs to get the centre voters to vote in him in and that has a snowballs chance of happening

 

[law74]

How does getting more labour voters in an already safe seat show you are electable in our fptp system?

The tories on here made this point when Corbyn was elected leader the best he can hope for is a bigger turn out in labour areas with no chance of power
Thats where all these new party members are from safe labour seats

He needs to get the centre voters to vote in him in and that has a snowballs chance of happening

How many myths, lies & right wing propaganda can be fitted in one post?
Where is the evidence that all these new Labour members come from areas that are already strongholds?
Are you certain that "middle England" will decide the next General Election?
How many didn't vote in the last GE?
Are these likely to be businessmen earning over £100,000 per annum or people on zero hour contracts, or the other working poor that are seeing their standard of living destroyed by tory policy?
With a few more hundred thousand messengers going out knocking doors, very many I believe will register and go out and vote next time.
Why?
Because at the next General Election there will be a choice, a real choice.

 

[SWP's back]

May has made a strong start (apart from appointing Johnson)

???

 

[SWP's back]

Are you certain that "middle England" will decide the next General Election?

Yes. They always do.

 

[Paul Lake's Left Knee]

Yes. They always do.

Middle England isnt as important now that Labour's support in Scotland has crumbled, unless that is reversed Labour has little chance in any general election that might happen soon.

 

[Blue Hefner]

Corbyn can stick up for the poor, the homeless, the unemployed and downtrodden all he likes, unfortunately for him(and the system as a whole) they don't vote!

There is a reason they make cuts to public services, the reason is that those directly effect will moan, lose faith and motivation but still won't vote - so in policitcal terms, don't really matter

He/they need to forget about changing the world and get on with making small changes that could actually make a difference

 

[Blue Hefner]

Corbyn can stick up for the poor, the homeless, the unemployed and downtrodden all he likes, unfortunately for him(and the system as a whole) they don't vote!

There is a reason they make cuts to public services, the reason is that those directly effect will moan, lose faith and motivation but still won't vote - so in policitcal terms, don't really matter

He/they need to forget about changing the world and get on with making small changes that could actually make a difference

 

[The perfect fumble]

Corbyn can stick up for the poor, the homeless, the unemployed and downtrodden all he likes, unfortunately for him(and the system as a whole) they don't vote!

There is a reason they make cuts to public services, the reason is that those directly effect will moan, lose faith and motivation but still won't vote - so in policitcal terms, don't really matter

He/they need to forget about changing the world and get on with making small changes that could actually make a difference

Have you considered the Liberal Democrats?

 

[Blue Hefner]

Have you considered the Liberal Democrats?

For an opposition, no I have not. And that little twat Farron jumping on the 2nd EU Referendum band wagon has, well, made him look a twat

 

[Chancy Termites]

Corbyn can stick up for the poor, the homeless, the unemployed and downtrodden all he likes, unfortunately for him(and the system as a whole) they don't vote!

A large number did vote in the EU referendum and got a result against the massed ranks of the conservatives, labour, Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs and sundry non dom billionaires. This didn't go unnoticed and they'll be back at the next general election.

Some will undoubtedly vote for the privileged edame bean munching millionaire Corbyn but plenty of votes will go elsewhere.

 

[Len Rum]

A large number did vote in the EU referendum and got a result against the massed ranks of the conservatives, labour, Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs and sundry non dom billionaires. This didn't go unnoticed and they'll be back at the next general election.

Some will undoubtedly vote for the privileged edame bean munching millionaire Corbyn but plenty of votes will go elsewhere.

Never heard of those beans. But just checked out the spelling on Google and it's "edamame".
Think you should apologies to Jeremy.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Some will undoubtedly vote for the privileged edame bean munching millionaire Corbyn but plenty of votes will go elsewhere.

And where might that be?

 

[Vic]

And where might that be?

UKIP

I have no doubt that the non-voters who voted were not anti-elite or even particularly anti-Cameron. They were anti-EU because (a) they've been fed anti-EU stuff for decades (some invented by Boris) or (b) because they believe the EU is anti-democratic (unlikely problem for non-voters you'd think) or (c) they don't like Poles doing jobs they wouldn't do or (d) they just don't like Poles (or Asians or blacks or Irish) even though "I'm not racist but".

I generalise of course. They certainly wouldn't have come out in their thousands to vote Labour if Corbyn had been leader in 2015 rather than Milliband.

 

[malg]

Never heard of those beans. But just checked out the spelling on Google and it's "edamame".
Think you should apologies to Jeremy.

Len, I expect more from you......"apologise".......