City v Arsenal post match thread

[bellsouth]

Its so funny reading this thread. I reckon as close to 100% of City fans were thrilled to land Pep finally. And yet after 3 friendlies, a lot of folk are actually trying to say you can't do it that way Pep, you have to do it this way. What was the point in getting him then?? Just let him get on with it and be prepared for some bumps on the way, stop panicking.

 

[Blue Llama]

What I saw yesterday was the same old City from last year. But the most most annoying thing was out total inability to hoof the ball up field when the defence are under pressure. Last few games we have played it out of defence easliy and confidently, yesterday that confidence dissapeared and we got to learn that isnt the time to do tippy tappy at the back.

I think the tippy tappy only works well when the keeper is fully integrated into the process and has the skills to do it well. That means the keeper has to have good anticipation and the speed off the mark to go with it. Quick decision making and good distribution skills. Unfortunately Joe does not posses these and I think that is what Pep sees. Joe is a bit of a ditherer and is slow over the first 4 yards. And we have all seen how many of his clearances go straight out. That's why in my opinion the tippy tappy was better executed in the first half.

 

[Ric]

It was frustrating that everything good about the Munich and Dortmund performances went out of the window, and we seemed to take a step backwards.

Still, it was only a friendly and hopefully we won't see the Kolarov/Fernando defensive pairing in an actual competitive game. It was always going to take time for Guardiola to implement his style of play, and whilst there will be a few teething problems along the way, it's certainly going to be worth it in the long run.

 

[shevtheblue]

It could be as simple as Kolarov has a particular characteristic in his play which is similar to someone else, who will play that position, but is injured or not yet signed. Or just the fact he's left footed.

Or perhaps he sees Kolarov's long ball abilities as a potential weapon in a back 3, so is testing him out under pressure, to see if he can be trusted or taught to play there.

It looks to me like he wants someone who's a ball player at the back, and for all his faults Kolarov has the best left foot in the squad and *should* be able to play a penetrating pass with better accuracy than most while at least being competent enough to cover in defence. Although i'm not sure i completely agree, I have faith that either Pep has seen something or is trying out something, either way its a friendly and he's using it to experiment, get fitness up and try and prep his basic tactics into the team in a game situation.

 

[Craig]

I think the tippy tappy only works well when the keeper is fully integrated into the process and has the skills to do it well. That means the keeper has to have good anticipation and the speed off the mark to go with it. Quick decision making and good distribution skills. Unfortunately Joe does not posses these and I think that is what Pep sees. Joe is a bit of a ditherer and is slow over the first 4 yards. And we have all seen how many of his clearances go straight out. That's why in my opinion the tippy tappy was better executed in the first half.

It wasn't though mate because Arsenal should have scored at least twice in the first half when Willy and Kolorov fucked up. Also the 1St half against Dortmund was the same and teams won't keep missing such great chances. Willy is no good at it either.

 

[Gingers Dad]

The thing is, Pep knows that Kolarov isn't a cb, but he's up to something. There are a whole bunch of players who could have played there instead of Kolarov, even with the current injuries etc, who would be better at cb.

There is a reason Guardiola has been using Kolarov. Whether it's because he's teaching him something & sees more to him than we do, or he's teaching the others something or if it's just to keep the team under pressure to teach them to cover, it's not because Pep is either a fucking idiot, or has no other choice, as seems to be the suggestion by at least half the flappers on here.

He didn't have to use Kolarov & Fernando at cb, he is experimenting with something. I can't fucking stand Kolarov, but I know Pep Guardiola knows his fucking stuff, so if he wants to try something with Kolarov, he can jolly well do so.

Or he's telling the top brass to get the transfer dealings over the line asap.

 

[FanchesterCity]

I think the tippy tappy only works well when the keeper is fully integrated into the process and has the skills to do it well. That means the keeper has to have good anticipation and the speed off the mark to go with it. Quick decision making and good distribution skills. Unfortunately Joe does not posses these and I think that is what Pep sees. Joe is a bit of a ditherer and is slow over the first 4 yards. And we have all seen how many of his clearances go straight out. That's why in my opinion the tippy tappy was better executed in the first half.

Victor Valdes wasn't tippy tappy. Barca coped.

 

[Ric]

It looks to me like he wants someone who's a ball player at the back, and for all his faults Kolarov has the best left foot in the squad and *should* be able to play a penetrating pass with better accuracy than most while at least being competent enough to cover in defence. Although i'm not sure i completely agree, I have faith that either Pep has seen something or is trying out something, either way its a friendly and he's using it to experiment, get fitness up and try and prep his basic tactics into the team in a game situation.

Kolarov's distribution from the back has been awful though. So many of his passes are either misplaced, or hit so hard that the player receiving the ball can do little with it.

Still, as you say I'm sure there's a good reason why Guardiola has persisted with this experiment. I'm just not sure what it is yet!

 

[shevtheblue]

It wasn't though mate because Arsenal should have scored at least twice in the first half when Willy and Kolorov fucked up. Also the 1St half against Dortmund was the same and teams won't keep missing such great chances. Willy is no good at it either.

This is Pep's style and he's already said he won't negotiate on the fundamentals of his style. Being able to keep the ball between defence and keeper is obviously the biggest risk on the pitch, but if you have the players with the ability and the trust in themselves to execute then it opens up a lot of options going forward while making the opposition over commit in attack and midfield. He'll stick with it, try and drill it into the existing players or replace them with new ones.

 

[shevtheblue]

Kolarov's distribution from the back has been awful though. So many of his passes are either misplaced, or hit so hard that the player receiving the ball can do little with it.

Still, as you say I'm sure there's a good reason why Guardiola has persisted with this experiment. I'm just not sure what it is yet!

Yep and i'm no big fan of Kolarov, but he plays for City and while he does i'll try my best to find any positives in his play :D He does have good technique when striking the ball so when the opposition over-commit, he SHOULD have the ability to dissect them. There are times you could see it last night IMO, he did get the ball quicker into the attacking third but when he messes it up he messes it up badly.

 

[Craig]

This is Pep's style and he's already said he won't negotiate on the fundamentals of his style. Being able to keep the ball between defence and keeper is obviously the biggest risk on the pitch, but if you have the players with the ability and the trust in themselves to execute then it opens up a lot of options going forward while making the opposition over commit in attack and midfield. He'll stick with it, try and drill it into the existing players or replace them with new ones.

I know but I'm just a bit surprised we are trying to play completely in a Barca style already with that defense. It's not as if we were a long ball team last year but there are times with the players we've got an with teams showing much less respect to us than Barca it needs clearing.

I was expecting us to have these areas strengthened by now with knowing Pep was coming for so long. Longterm I'm sure it'll be very good and the signings made point to that but this season anything could happen whilst people adjust or fail to.

 

[shevtheblue]

I know but I'm just a bit surprised we are trying to play completely in a Barca style already with that defense. It's not as if we were a long ball team last year but there are times with the players we've got an with teams showing much less respect to us than Barca it needs clearing.

I was expecting us to have these areas strengthened by now with knowing Pep was coming for so long. Longterm I'm sure it'll be very good and the signings made point to that but this season anything could happen whilst people adjust or fail to.

It's not a Barca style though mate that's the point, its a Pep Style and is something he has as an underpinning value of his tactics. Even from a defensive situation there are moments to turn it into an attack, Pep obviously thinks that he can coach that into his players. IMO we do have players that are able to do it in the squad (except keeper) and we should keep trying to improve the ones that can't do it immediately, especially if we haven't managed to get rid of them.

 

[inbetween]

Pep is clearly up to something with Kolarov.
I recall him making some comment around how impressed he was with Kolarov's condition when training commenced and used him as a shining example when commenting on fitness.
All I can say is that based on what I have seen with my own eyes yesterday's experimenting did not appear a glowing success.
Like you I am not an admirer of Kolarov but I would be happy to be proved wrong if Pep can turn him into a world class CD.
I thought it was a shame not to see what our recognised defenders could do yesterday in our last warm up game but I guess it was far more reasonable to experiment yesterday than v the mackens...

I think he has at least a back 2 sorted so he is experimenting with new options which would give flexibility. He is also doing what Pellegrini didn't do and instilling some competition in the side, if Kolarov can't play on the left because Clichy plays well then why can't he compete for a central spot? Lahm is a great example of someone similar at Bayern who he turned into a solid player in the middle because he stepped up to the opportunity.

For those unsure, in hindsight, despite the result at least we didn't come away like Arsenal did with a serious injury to a first 11 player.

The only real thing I was concerned about was the goalkeeping situation as neither keeper seemed comfortable with playing out from the back when being pressed.

 

[supercity88]

We have been absolutely shocking at the back. Pep has been with the side a while now but its clear there are a few absolute donkeys in our squad that need to be shifted. To be able to play out from the back you need to be able to pass well, have a good first touch and be comfortable enough to get your head up and know who is around you.

I'm seeing issues all across the park still with players picking and choosing when they press, certain ones then being dragged into pressing areas they shouldn't and gaps appearing. It was the same old story for me. Arsenal got at our defence so easily and when we won the ball back we were so poor with it at the back. Caballero looked so uncomfortable. He was slow to distribute it and when he did it was to someone too heavily marked. We haven't got the personnel at the back to play this way at the moment.

Pep was clapping the attempts to play out of trouble and I'm sure given time our team will get better but its worrying to be going into a season like this. Still very much a work in progress and I think it was a poor game in general, no improvement from the Dortmund performance. Hopefully that's because they've been working hard in training.

Sunderland should be a game we don't get too pressed at the back with but I'm not convinced we are going to challenge for the league this season.

 

[flb]

It could be as simple as Kolarov has a particular characteristic in his play which is similar to someone else, who will play that position, but is injured or not yet signed. Or just the fact he's left footed.

Or perhaps he sees Kolarov's long ball abilities as a potential weapon in a back 3, so is testing him out under pressure, to see if he can be trusted or taught to play there.

Fair points mate but Denayer seems to have been written off that he cant do any of the things that Kolorov can supposedly do.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Or he's telling the top brass to get the transfer dealings over the line asap.

Pep isn't a mardarse like Mancini.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Fair points mate but Denayer seems to have been written off that he cant do any of the things that Kolorov can supposedly do.

I don't know what is happening with Denayer but he isn't left footed, if that's what Pep is looking at.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Kolarov's distribution from the back has been awful though. So many of his passes are either misplaced, or hit so hard that the player receiving the ball can do little with it.

Still, as you say I'm sure there's a good reason why Guardiola has persisted with this experiment. I'm just not sure what it is yet!

Some of his passing has been diabolical but he's also produced a couple of killer passes, one over the defence which Aguero should have scored from imo.

Might be totally wrong, but it could be an experiment for teams who try to press. Loads of short passing with an occasional sudden long range ball. He did Dortmund like that last season.

 

[CrownPointBlue]

We have been absolutely shocking at the back. Pep has been with the side a while now but its clear there are a few absolute donkeys in our squad that need to be shifted. To be able to play out from the back you need to be able to pass well, have a good first touch and be comfortable enough to get your head up and know who is around you.

I'm seeing issues all across the park still with players picking and choosing when they press, certain ones then being dragged into pressing areas they shouldn't and gaps appearing. It was the same old story for me. Arsenal got at our defence so easily and when we won the ball back we were so poor with it at the back. Caballero looked so uncomfortable. He was slow to distribute it and when he did it was to someone too heavily marked. We haven't got the personnel at the back to play this way at the moment.

Pep was clapping the attempts to play out of trouble and I'm sure given time our team will get better but its worrying to be going into a season like this. Still very much a work in progress and I think it was a poor game in general, no improvement from the Dortmund performance. Hopefully that's because they've been working hard in training.

Sunderland should be a game we don't get too pressed at the back with but I'm not convinced we are going to challenge for the league this season.

We are heading for problems IF we persist like this. We simply don't have the players & PL teams are clever enough to work out how to play against such publicly stated tactics.

Pep has a reputation for being incredibly single minded which is ok if you've got incredibly talented,intelligent players. We don't

It's going to get very interesting........particularly amongst some of the sensitive keyboard Warriers on here.

 

[Gingers Dad]

Some of his passing has been diabolical but he's also produced a couple of killer passes, one over the defence which Aguero should have scored from imo.

Might be totally wrong, but it could be an experiment for teams who try to press. Loads of short passing with an occasional sudden long range ball. He did Dortmund like that last season.

Critical that a defenders short passing game is spot on, anyone can hit long. But first and foremost a defender has to be able to defend.