Joe Hart (joined Torino on season long loan - Official)

[r.soleofsalford]

Nothing wrong with any of that mate. I feel similar when I see Kompany or Silva attacked because I still feel they have so much to offer and are deserving of a lot more respect afforded him by some posters.
The Hart situation is similar although in this case I have come to terms with it because I've had a while to take in the fact that Joe just isn't a Pep keeper. I'm still hoping he can prove us naysayers wrong mind.

fingers crossed that Joe decides to fight for his spot rather than sulk with rage.

 

[domalino]

However the PL squad rules just say that you can have up to 8 players who are association trained, whether your own club or not. So getting Bravo in for Hart does affect the PL squad as he would then have to be a foreign player and we'd have to drop an additional player from the PL squad.

We have to build our squad to the Champions League rules. You can't carry on having situations where some players are only allowed to play in the Premier League, it's ridiculous, and there's a reason no club in the world does it.

 

[flb]

Willies total summation here would be "Saved a few penalties", he is not within a country mile of Hart an never will be.
Hart has won us games galore because he made saves bordering on world class on a regular basis, Pep needs to have a f*cking word with himself.

Look at the bigger picture-do you support the player or the club?

 

[domalino]

I don't think Willy was picked ahead of Joe because he is any better than him or is able to implement Pep's style either.

I think it was to make his intent clear that he doesn't want Joe as Number 1

I disagree. Hart showed against Arsenal that he can't be trusted to carry out the tactics Pep wants to use, and until Guardiola trusts him to do what he says, he can't possibly play. It goes back to the Henry anecdote where he ignored orders came off his wing, scored and then got pulled off immediately.

I really think it's as simple as that.

 

[SWP's back]

then got pulled off immediately.

Lucky fella. I just got bought a pint when I used to score.

 

[There is a Light]

I would imagine Pep has watched Joe for some time, at least since it was announced he was coming here. So in terms of chances given, Pep obviously feels he's seen enough to make the decision. On loyalty, well there is no loyalty in football, you're either in our you're out. Particular when a new manager comes and doesn't fancy you. That is football.
I don't think anyone is suggesting Willy is a better keeper than Joe - but then nobody is suggesting Willy is the next number 1 either, so I don't understand why you are pitching this as Joe V Willy? Willy played because the manager feels he's the better option right now, maybe Joe just isn't mentally right at the moment? I'm sure he's upset and pissed off.

It's a farcical situation if Willy stays and Joe goes. You're assuming Joe isn't in the right place mentally but that's not what Pep said.Currently WC holds the number one spot, can't see the benefit in that at all unless it's with the purpose of giving Joe a shake. I think we all know though that Joe is going to be the one to leave however.

 

[SWP's back]

I disagree. Hart showed against Arsenal that he can't be trusted to carry out the tactics Pep wants to use, and until Guardiola trusts him to do what he says, he can't possibly play. It goes back to the Henry anecdote where he ignored orders came off his wing, scored and then got pulled off immediately.

I really think it's as simple as that.

I concur. There was also the St Johnstone match.

 

[Neville Kneville]

We have to build our squad to the Champions League rules. You can't carry on having situations where some players are only allowed to play in the Premier League, it's ridiculous, and there's a reason no club in the world does it.

It's ok for one or two of the young players we sign, imo, provided they play enough domestic games. But senior players are likely to resent it.

 

[Neville Kneville]

It's a farcical situation if Willy stays and Joe goes. You're assuming Joe isn't in the right place mentally but that's not what Pep said.Currently WC holds the number one spot, can't see the benefit in that at all unless it's with the purpose of giving Joe a shake. I think we all know though that Joe is going to be the one to leave however.

If I thought Joe would accept fighting with a top keeper for No1 place, I would be delighted for Joe to stay. If however we do sign a top keeper, I don't think Joe will accept that.

 

[Heisenberg's Blue Sky]

There's some sentimental football simpletons on this thread.

No one. Literally no one thinks Willy is a better keeper. I don't reckon there's many think Willy is better with his feet either. But what we've witnessed is Willy doing as instructed and Hart not doing (and we didn't watch the St Johnstone game Hart played in).

We also don't watch training and know what's been said by whom and to whom.

But one thing that is for sure is that if Pep wants Txiki to buy a keeper, he doesn't drop the No1 keeper on a whim or to prove a point or to alert other clubs to his availability. The very thought is beyond ludicrous. His agent would be in the phone to 50 clubs within minutes of he was told to leave or find another club.

Pep believes we concede less goals by having control of the ball than we would having the world's best shot stopper kicking it to the opposition every time. He's not going to change now and any City not understanding that should either have a word with themselves or be prepared to be disappointed.

Although dont agree with calling others simpletons theres something that rings righy with the summation. But there maybe be a bit of everything that has just accumulated into the situation we have now.

Theres no way after all thats been said done and reported even by top brass at the club that Pep has to do anything to prove a point. He basically has free reign to mould the team (and in certain team areas the club) in his own image. I think if Pep wants to make a change (bring someone in or shit can them out) then eventually he will get his way (at least for the foreseeable) even if the management try to persuade him out of it.

What i did notice and my first thoughts watching JH come on at the arse friendly was having spent time reading about playinh out from the back and watching Willy try hus hardest to do just that (bless him but this is the point - he fuckin tried even if it caused him embarassment and even Pep applauded his mistake!) only to see JH come one and try to score rugby tries, punting the ball into touch. I did think it strange. He didnt even look like trying.

I hope he stays and learns adds more strings to his bow. Surely he aims to be one of the world's greats and if he can add new dimensions to his play he could achieve that under Pep. I can only personally say Pep nèeds his keeper to perform in a certain way and for some reason JH is not willing to be that keeper or Pep knows for whatever reason he cant make him into it. Is that attitude? Ego? On JH's part? Either way sumat wasnt right starting at that arse friendly.

 

[Phil1]

It's a farcical situation if Willy stays and Joe goes. You're assuming Joe isn't in the right place mentally but that's not what Pep said.Currently WC holds the number one spot, can't see the benefit in that at all unless it's with the purpose of giving Joe a shake. I think we all know though that Joe is going to be the one to leave however.

It's only farcical in the eyes of those who seem to care more about Hart being upset than they do the good of the team. If Joe goes it's because we've brought in a player to go straight in. Willy won't be starting if that's the case.
There's conflicting reports about regarding Harts state of mind about this. Some are saying he's willing to fight others that he's not taken it well. Who knows what's going on. We will know one way or another before 31st August so for now it's a case of wait and see.

 

[SWP's back]

Although dont agree with calling others simpletons theres something that rings righy with the summation. But there maybe be a bit of everything that has just accumulated into the situation we have now.

Theres no way after all thats been said done and reported even by top brass at the club that Pep has to do anything to prove a point. He basically has free reign to mould the team (and in certain team areas the club) in his own image. I think if Pep wants to make a change (bring someone in or shit can them out) then eventually he will get his way (at least for the foreseeable) even if the management try to persuade him out of it.

What i did notice and my first thoughts watching JH come on at the arse friendly was having spent time reading about playinh out from the back and watching Willy try hus hardest to do just that (bless him but this is the point - he fuckin tried even if it caused him embarassment and even Pep applauded his mistake!) only to see JH come one and try to score rugby tries, punting the ball into touch. I did think it strange. He didnt even look like trying.

I hope he stays and learns adds more strings to his bow. Surely he aims to be one of the world's greats and if he can add new dimensions to his play he could achieve that under Pep. I can only personally say Pep nèeds his keeper to perform in a certain way and for some reason JH is not willing to be that keeper or Pep knows for whatever reason he cant make him into it. Is that attitude? Ego? On JH's part? Either way sumat wasnt right starting at that arse friendly.

The simpletons remark was for those thinking Pep "needs to have a fucking word with himself" as they don't understand that his model of football does not work without keeping control of the ball. And how that method is designed to, first and foremost, stop the opposition scoring. Pep's teams are virtually always the team with least conceded.

Pep will not be having a word with himself over this. Playing the ball out is intrinsic to the game plan.

But yes, I maybe shouldn't have called anyone simpletons, it just frustrates me when people think it's simply a choice of which keeper is better at shot stopping. (And I've been Willy's biggest critic on here)

 

[There is a Light]

It's only farcical in the eyes of those who seem to care more about Hart being upset than they do the good of the team. If Joe goes it's because we've brought in a player to go straight in. Willy won't be starting if that's the case.
There's conflicting reports about regarding Harts state of mind about this. Some are saying he's willing to fight others that he's not taken it well. Who knows what's going on. We will know one way or another before 31st August so for now it's a case of wait and see.

He reacted perfectly last time he was dropped. He didn't seem to hide on Saturday. I think he's big enough to accept it.

 

[Len Rum]

Hart has won us games galore because he made saves bordering on world class on a regular basis.

I think even Joe would be a tad embarrassed at that statement.

 

[Akiva]

He reacted perfectly last time he was dropped. He didn't seem to hide on Saturday. I think he's big enough to accept it.

I think there's too much smoke for there to be no fire, unless you suggest Cheeseman and others are pulling this story out of their collective arses. Why would they?

If he wants to stay and fight for his place, good on him. But if he's staying and causing discord in the dressing room then move him on.

 

[yeseye]

I think even Joe would be a tad embarrassed at that statement.

Didn't Lionel once call him a phenomenal ?

 

[Nails]

The simpletons remark was for those thinking Pep "needs to have a fucking word with himself" as they don't understand that his model of football does not work without keeping control of the ball. And how that method is designed to, first and foremost, stop the opposition scoring. Pep's teams are virtually always the team with least conceded.

Pep will not be having a word with himself over this. Playing the ball out is intrinsic to the game plan.

But yes, I maybe shouldn't have called anyone simpletons, it just frustrates me when people think it's simply a choice of which keeper is better at shot stopping. (And I've been Willy's biggest critic on here)

Hallelujah brother.

 

[There is a Light]

I think there's too much smoke for there to be no fire, unless you suggest Cheeseman and others are pulling this story out of their collective arses. Why would they?

If he wants to stay and fight for his place, good on him. But if he's staying and causing discord in the dressing room then move him on.

And that's fair enough. I hope he is big enough to stay and fight, if he is given the chance to do so.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

We have to build our squad to the Champions League rules. You can't carry on having situations where some players are only allowed to play in the Premier League, it's ridiculous, and there's a reason no club in the world does it.

I kind of agree. Let's assume that Mangala, Nasri & Bony are out of the door, together with Hart being replaced by Bravo. That covers up for the PL as we'd only need to lose 3 foreign players and it'll be those first named three.

However we'd need to lose 5 foreign players from the CL squad, meaning we're 2 short. I'd leave Zinchenko out of the CL squad, meaning we've still another to find. If Kompany or Gundogan's fitness is in doubt then one of those could be the one left out for the group stage then brought back in January, when Iheanacho can go on the B-list. But it does seem daft that we'd put ourselves in a position where we'd need to leave someone out who we'd rather not.

 

[Len Rum]

Didn't Lionel once call him a phenomenal ?

Was that after the Bayern Munich 1-3 home defeat three seasons ago?