Labour / Tory Party meltdown Referendum fallout

[i kne albert davy]

Say it enough times people may begin to believe it

Corbyn has been elected twice by less than 330000 right wing activists, on each occasion, hardly disproves he is unelectable there is a strong argument for the exact opposite.
He got my votes both times.

Sadly you voted to have a tory Government for the foreseeable future.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

LOL....There in lies the rub, with the exception of Trident Corbyn is Harold Wilson, in fact in many regards Wilson was to the left of him. It is a testimony to how far right the centre ground has become that Corbyn, who is firmly in the European Social Democratic mould, is, in this small minded island, considered a radical Marxist.

When Harold Wilson was at his apogee, the working class vote was hugely determinative in relation to the outcome of general elections. Today, the professional middle classes are the Kingmakers in this land. Not saying it's right or fair, but it's undeniably true, and why your references to 'left' and 'right' are broadly anachronistic.

 

[cyberblue]

I want a democracy where the opposition can hold the governing party to account and challenge them in a general election. A strong opposition could and should be ahead of the tories with the state they are in over brexit, Nhs and grammar schools. Thanks to the self indulgent labour membership, the tories are getting off scot free and will walk the next election.
Hows that good democracy ?

Not saying it is good or bad.but the fact is Corbyn has been voted in twice by the membership

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Shouldn't people vote on the basis of policies and not personality? I ,for one, like the thought of a different style of politics .....not your usual eton / harrow candidate with no grasp of the real world

 

[CTID1988]

Its not Corbyn i dislike, id vote labour over torys any day, its a lot of his followers. They have got to be some of the most annoying people on earth

 

[cibaman]

Shouldn't people vote on the basis of policies and not personality? I ,for one, like the thought of a different style of politics .....not your usual eton / harrow candidate with no grasp of the real world

Cant say I've seen much sign of a new style of politics. Its a re-run of 79-83. Corbyn has replaced Foot as the well meaning, polite, inoffensive leader who allows mayhem to flourish around him. Its certainly different to the eton/harrow crew, but in its own way just as out of touch with the real world.

 

[2sheikhs]

The likes of corbyn and abbot have NEVER had a "proper" job. They've just stumbled from one talking shop to the other. Students union, cnd, cre, stop the war etc.

 

[CTID1988]

Tory's til 2025, get comfy

 

[inbetween]

Say it enough times people may begin to believe it

Corbyn has been elected twice by less than 330000 right wing activists, on each occasion, hardly disproves he is unelectable there is a strong argument for the exact opposite.
He got my votes both times.

There is no proof of anything until you have an election that contains the whole country. The majority of people who have recently joined Labour are no doubt people who were previously disenfranchised by Miliband, Blair and those years of centrist policy. I don't believe for one second that the country voted by majority for a Tory government and then will suddenly decide to go hard left, of course many Labour voters went to the right on Brexit too.. UKIP is the fastest growing party and will those 3 million people there suddenly decide to vote for Labour? People voted for Brexit on a strong basis of an anti-immigration stance, Corbyn will ensure the floodgates are opened, are 51% going to be happy about that? Are that 51% going to be happy that Corbyn will redirect the defense budget abroad in Foreign Aid....?

I think a lot will be attracted to Corbyn but the greater collective won't be attracted on policy when the Tories will always win on key issues, many underestimate how strong May is going to be on this. The Tories have given people Brexit, 51% of the electorate wanted it and they have taken control now over the process. When Labour can be discredited on the economy so easily are the electorate going to hand Labour the keys to handling what could be the most difficult time our economy has faced... I just cannot see it.

I have yet to hear anyone really say they like Corbyn's policies, most just say he is a 'nice man'.... He will win votes but will that translate into seats, I doubt it. People said the exact same of Farage, he was an honest straight talker yet still we have a Tory government. Corbyn needs to work out how he can win back Scotland first and that is yet another thing that is just not going to happen. Without Scotland he then has to overturn people who voted Tory last time, I was one of them and I don't see any reason why that will change.

 

[Cheesy]

Shouldn't people vote on the basis of policies and not personality? I ,for one, like the thought of a different style of politics .....not your usual eton / harrow candidate with no grasp of the real world

He went to an independent prep school followed by a grammar school.

When exactly has Corbyn ever had a real job?

He's also said to have a net worth of nearly £1 million.

Yep, obviously in touch with the real world.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Why are UKIP rising in numbers ? They are a Independence Party and we have voted for independence away from the EU. why are they still doing so well ?

 

[CityStu]

Why are UKIP rising in numbers ? They are a Independence Party and we have voted for independence away from the EU. why are they still doing so well ?

Because they are the only party that the working class believes represents them. Many won't vote Tory out of habit, Labour's new leader is best supported by students who have never worked, their losing leadership candidate wanted to renege on the Brexit vote that the majority of the working class voted for and the same goes for the Lib Dems.

 

[law74]

There is no proof of anything until you have an election that contains the whole country. The majority of people who have recently joined Labour are no doubt people who were previously disenfranchised by Miliband, Blair and those years of centrist policy. I don't believe for one second that the country voted by majority for a Tory government and then will suddenly decide to go hard left, of course many Labour voters went to the right on Brexit too.. UKIP is the fastest growing party and will those 3 million people there suddenly decide to vote for Labour? People voted for Brexit on a strong basis of an anti-immigration stance, Corbyn will ensure the floodgates are opened, are 51% going to be happy about that? Are that 51% going to be happy that Corbyn will redirect the defense budget abroad in Foreign Aid....?

I think a lot will be attracted to Corbyn but the greater collective won't be attracted on policy when the Tories will always win on key issues, many underestimate how strong May is going to be on this. The Tories have given people Brexit, 51% of the electorate wanted it and they have taken control now over the process. When Labour can be discredited on the economy so easily are the electorate going to hand Labour the keys to handling what could be the most difficult time our economy has faced... I just cannot see it.

I have yet to hear anyone really say they like Corbyn's policies, most just say he is a 'nice man'.... He will win votes but will that translate into seats, I doubt it. People said the exact same of Farage, he was an honest straight talker yet still we have a Tory government. Corbyn needs to work out how he can win back Scotland first and that is yet another thing that is just not going to happen. Without Scotland he then has to overturn people who voted Tory last time, I was one of them and I don't see any reason why that will change.

For many the Brexit vote was anot attack on the established order, many others believed it had become an unaccountable mouthpiece solely for the benefit of big business ("I don't take my mandate from the European people"), Corbyn can appeal to both these demographics.
In a survey recently in Guildford (hardly a broad left hotbed), most of those polled when shown his policies agreed with them (until shown that they were policies proposed by JC, but because of the MSM being owned for and by tax avoiding billionaires, and the decision of many within the PLP, these policies are not being heard.
Now the chicken coup has totally failed, resulting in an even stronger mandate for the leader of the opposition, the 172 have a decision to make, either accept the wishes of the party members (those that weren't excluded from voting for often ridiculous reasons), & back their leader, or continuing to support the tories and face the wrath of their CLP when it comes selection time (though for some it think it is already too late)

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Why are UKIP rising in numbers ? They are a Independence Party and we have voted for independence away from the EU. why are they still doing so well ?

If you're a working man/woman, grafting your tripes out, paying tax, buying your home and generally trying to improve your life
by your own efforts, being constantly lectured about 'Inequality,' how ineffective and puny the UK is without having your hand held by
some unelected Luxembourg piss head, being told how cruel and racist you are by 18 year old students and multi millionaire
right on Luvvies, your patience with Labour starts to wane. You'll never vote Tory, the Liberals have virtually vanished, so you
swerve to UKIP, in the main.

 

[2sheikhs]

Like it or not, the electorate vote for personality over policy to a certain extent. A lot of people judge a potential leader on whether they have actual leadership qualities and how they'd represent our country amongst foreign leaders.
Corbyn is seen by many as a secondary school geography teacher. Well meaning, sees the best in people, all round good egg.
The tories can't believe their luck that he's been voted in again by the rank and file labour members. It's given them carte blanch to implement some really divisive and unjust policies despite all the crap going on in their own party.
The last thing the tories want is someone like Dan jarvis getting the labour leadership.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Apparently fracking will be banned in the UK, if Labour gets power.
The GMB are not happy, to say the least; this conference should be a real laugh.

 

[purplenose]

Like it or not, the electorate vote for personality over policy to a certain extent. A lot of people judge a potential leader on whether they have actual leadership qualities and how they'd represent our country amongst foreign leaders.
Corbyn is seen by many as a secondary school geography teacher. Well meaning, sees the best in people, all round good egg.
The tories can't believe their luck that he's been voted in again by the rank and file labour members. It's given them carte blanch to implement some really divisive and unjust policies despite all the crap going on in their own party.
The last thing the tories want is someone like Dan jarvis getting the labour leadership.

Agreed the Tories must be pissing themselves laughing at the absolute debacle the apparent opposition has become. Teresa May surely must be tempted to call an election.

I am not so sure they will be in a rush to start implementing incendiary policies as they saw the clear message given back in June. May has already stated they want to lose the "nasty party" tag. Now had Cameron and Osborne still been in charge, I dread to think.

 

[Kazzydeyna]

If you're a working man/woman, grafting your tripes out, paying tax, buying your home and generally trying to improve your life
by your own efforts, being constantly lectured about 'Inequality,' how ineffective and puny the UK is without having your hand held by
some unelected Luxembourg piss head, being told how cruel and racist you are by 18 year old students and multi millionaire
right on Luvvies, your patience with Labour starts to wane. You'll never vote Tory, the Liberals have virtually vanished, so you
swerve to UKIP, in the main.

You know what? Sadly I want you to be wrong with this post but I fear you are right.

Never has the political class held the voters in greater contempt.

All of them want to continue in the EU because, for one of many reasons, they can advance their right wing , crush the people's spirit and divide and rule, policies and use the "it wasnt me it was the EU" excuse. That's why I believe Boris wanted a close defeat and shit himself when brexit won.

It's also why as much as I admire him and will happily vote for him, I'm disappointed with Jeremy. He is a lifelong, natural, euro sceptic who imo went for brexit to try and hold his party together. That worked well for him didn't it.

It's why you now have major figures in labour and lib dem openly campaigning to ignore the wishes of the electorate because they believe we are "too thick, too racist, too northern, too old in our 'northern crappy towns' ".

Don't expect the tories to be any different as the GE gets closer.

I despise so much of ukip but you cannot deny they appear to be the only party that listens to 'ordinary' people. They are no friend of the working class, or the disadvantaged in society, but if they get to a position of influence (they'll never win a GE but they don't need to win, just poll enough votes) where their other hateful side comes out it won't be the tories fault. It will be the right of the Labour Party.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Agreed the Tories must be pissing themselves laughing at the absolute debacle the apparent opposition has become. Teresa May surely must be tempted to call an election.

She can't unilaterally call an election any more as it now needs a 75% majority in the House of Commons to call an early election. There are rumours that Corbyn would actually support an early election, which really would be turkeys voting for Xmas.

 

[purplenose]

She can't unilaterally call an election any more as it now needs a 75% majority in the House of Commons to call an early election. There are rumours that Corbyn would actually support an early election, which really would be turkeys voting for Xmas.

Thats interesting, I knew it had changed but wasnt sure what the mechanism for calling an election is now.

I suspect were she to want an election she would probably quite easily get that 75%, most Tories would give it their blessing I would think, and as you suggest there will be those in Labour who would on the back of delusional interpretations of both the Brexit vote and the Leadership votes believe they could win an election now.