Claudio Bravo - 2016/2017 performances (continued)

[BlueTG]

I'm still adamant that he's not a bad keeper, I think he's simply struggling with the demands to the Premier League. He does need to make a few more saves, but I don't think he's the big issue yet.

He's definitely been one of them. It's January and the only points he's managed to 'win us' as per say, are the 2 against Burnley which was a standard save and only became "match winning" because of the bollock he dropped earlier on.

 

[SWP's back]

Is it possible he's had his careers purple patch for the last few years?

Possible but as I say, right now, if he was playing in my Sunday league team, I'd be pissed off I wasn't starting ahead of him.

Surely he's never been that bad.

(He would probably get a place in midfield in my Sunday league team though)

 

[BlueTG]

Possible but as I say, right now, if he was playing in my Sunday league team, I'd be pissed off I wasn't starting ahead of him.

Surely he's never been that bad.

(He would probably get a place in midfield in my Sunday league team though)

I don't disagree, If he was playing over me in my Sunday team in goal I'd be pissed. Possibly that he was never as exposed as much as in our league and team and it's just showing more consistently. Either way, I need to see a lot more to rate him.

 

[Techno]

That twat between the sticks at the swamp was terrible in his first season, but then turned it around. I think Bravo's saviour is Vinny, the problem is will he get back in and stay fit? If he does then I think he will give the whole defence, including Bravo, the confidence and stability it needs.

Bravo has been poor but then look what he's been dealing with - our whole defence has been shocking recently, we keep changing it, we're playing defenders in midfield, we're asking old players to play a new style of football which they clearly are not comfortable with, the list goes on.

For me Vinny has to stay fit, for his own sake and for ours. If he does he'll be the equivalent of a new signing and we get the top 4 finish we have to have.

Editors note: I'm a half centurion City fan.. I live with eternal optimism, but expect fuck all!

 

[mosssideblue]

How many clean sheets have we kept because of Bravo? He hasnt made a single decent save in half a season, that is why he is getting abuse and the abuse wont stop until he shows why we invested £16m in him. He wont show this by making 5 yard square passes to a full back.

As for who was to blame for the 1st, they were all culpable and they have all received negativity on this very forum but as I stated in my previous post, they all have some previous with the club where they have done some good. Bravo doesnt have any.

So when does each player run out of credit?
This "because you have done some good your excused" is absolute bollocks. You should be assessing everyone under the same conditions.

 

[mosssideblue]

Carragher summed up fair and square about Bravo.

How many keepers would have saved those shots, Hart certainly would as would a lot of keepers in the Premier League.

Look, I've tried to stand by Bravo and give him a chance but the stats make very sorry reading and the videos are a real eye opener when slowed down. His positional sense is awful, Chelsea, Leicester, Everton to name but a few.

OK he made a howler v Barca away but to me he is the best goalkeeper in the world with his feet, that's not in doubt but his actual goalkeeping leaves a lot to be desired to say the least.

You have to ask yourself the question, how many points would Hart have saved us this season or not just Hart but any other top keeper? I know what the answer is unfortunately.

Can you prove Hart or anyone else for that matter would have saved them? The answer is no, so trying to use that as a basis for your argument is somewhat negated don't you think?

And how many would he have cost us through woeful distribution? You cannot have it both ways.

 

[mosssideblue]

Not since the dark days of when Ball flogged Coton to the rags and brought in the useless Eike Immel have I ever seen us shoot ourselves in the foot quite so spectaculary. We had one of the best goal keepers in the prem the best English goal keeper by a country mile and we swap him for the worst. It just beggers belief how Pep is to arrogant to see this. A goal keepers primary job is to save goals not play as an out field player.

Well, with Pep in charge and likely to be extending his contract you have two options

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

he's become a self-fulfilling prophecy unfortunately. The minute he dropped it at OT after already being under such scrutiny because of Hart has just lead to every negative comment made about him being fulfilled by him out on the pitch. It's the strangest capitulation from a world class player I've seen in a while. Every shot on target he seems to use the wrong technique, or be in the wrong position, or make the wrong choice, it's bizarre.

He'll go one of two ways. He'll either make THAT save that wipes the slate clean and inspires him on, or he'll leave in the summer. If Pep is wanting a new keeper in as #1, then I can't for the life of me see why he isn't picking Willy. My only reasoning can be is we're going with 2 competing keepers next season and Bravo will be 1, but the way his demeanor and performances are at the moment, I can't see him wanting to stay. His shot-stopping is actually broken.

 

[mosssideblue]

I think when measured by the usual goalkeeper standards and attributes he is an average goalkeeper. He has however other attributes that given the right environment will make him look one of the very best e.g. a team that dominates possession and has a very good defence who are exceptional on the ball, we have the likes of Kolarov. I dont think he is in the right environment with this current City side. If we had changed the defence first and added Bravo later I think we may all have very different views on Bravo. Things are currently so bad though that I wouldnt be surprised if he wasnt around for the much needed defence upgrade.

I take onboard your viewpoint, but don't you think also that it could have gone equally as wrong by putting a pep defence in front of a hoofer? Pep obviously had his reasons for deciding the keeper needed changing first and as discussed previously, he probably accepts with the current defenders we were likely to ship more goals, but is willing to take that hit this season. I admit though that this approach will be wrecking his confidence, but if the Club have agreed this approach, so be it. It doesn't make him the awful keeper many think he is though.

Ride the storm blues, it will surely all look better in the morning

 

[RayCTID]

Bravo doesn't need the extra kicking he is currently getting from his own supporters. It is the same abuse that Willy got when he joined the club.

 

[Cityfan]

I highly doubt it because the theory that we are receiving different chances compared to other teams in the league is Farfetched.

I am not particularly wanting to enter a Bravo good or bad debate but on this point, I don't think it is ridiculously far fetched to think we may be conceding somewhat different chances to many other teams, we play a far higher line than virtually everyone else and my general impression is that when opposition forwards have chances against us on average they have fewer defenders around them and a little more time to place the shot.

This is not intended as a specific defense of Bravo but an observation on the stats of chances.

 

[schfc6]

I am not particularly wanting to enter a Bravo good or bad debate but on this point, I don't think it is ridiculously far fetched to think we may be conceding somewhat different chances to many other teams, we play a far higher line than virtually everyone else and my general impression is that when opposition forwards have chances against us on average they have fewer defenders around them and a little more time to place the shot.

This is not intended as a specific defense of Bravo but an observation on the stats of chances.

That is my thought on it too. People can offer stats all they like. But they need context.
I don't remeber De Gea, Courtios, Cech or Lloris facing strikers charging through unchallenged quite as often as Bravo does.

 

[RandomJ]

That is my thought on it too. People can offer stats all they like. But they need context.
I don't remeber De Gea, Courtios, Cech or Lloris facing strikers charging through unchallenged quite as often as Bravo does.

Yeah but then you could look at cases like Hart when he was on loan at Birmingham or Butland at Stoke or Heaton at Burnley or Pickford at Sunderland. All had to face lots of shots but they showed their quality rather than let every shot go in.

 

[schfc6]

Yeah but then you could look at cases like Hart when he was on loan at Birmingham or Butland at Stoke or Heaton at Burnley or Pickford at Sunderland. All had to face lots of shots but they showed their quality rather than let every shot go in.

Completely different point. Nothing to do with mine.

The likely hood of any of those teams or keepers having international strikers charging through totally unopposed is practically zero. As they've normally got 5 or 6 defenders defending for their lives 18 yards in front of them. Not on their arse 40 yards up field.

 

[blue ranger]

The interesting point is that generally speaking Bravo hasn't made a handling error, or nothing has squirmed through his legs etc. But the facts are that every team in the league requires the goalkeeper at some point to make a save that wins them points or a match. The truth is Bravo doesn't seem to be getting near to any goal attempts and I'd also question his technique. For example, the third goal versus Everton for me was appalling. Goalkeepers come off their line and make themselves big, Bravo actually makes himself smaller. This is a supposed £20m keeper, i genuinely can't believe what I am seeing.

 

[Bill]

Can you prove Hart or anyone else for that matter would have saved them? The answer is no, so trying to use that as a basis for your argument is somewhat negated don't you think?

And how many would he have cost us through woeful distribution? You cannot have it both ways.

we don't know if hart would have let them in, what we do know is bravo HAS.

give it up mate he's making you look foolish.

 

[blueinsa]

He needs to be dropped and allowed the time in training to gain his confidence and form.

No one will argue otherwise right now but so many players have been called shit and written off on here only for them to prove otherwise.

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

That is my thought on it too. People can offer stats all they like. But they need context.
I don't remeber De Gea, Courtios, Cech or Lloris facing strikers charging through unchallenged quite as often as Bravo does.

It happened to Hart loads of times under Pellegrini and he saved a shit load more than he let in. In fact he absolutely excelled at it. He was a Timmy Chocolate Wrists low down to his left, but in terms of keeping the ball out of our net generally, he was a country mile ahead of Bravo.

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

He needs to be dropped and allowed the time in training to gain his confidence and form.

No one will argue otherwise right now but so many players have been called shit and written off on here only for them to prove otherwise.

True, but few have looked so ill equipped physically, as well as in terms of technique. I know Pep wants a footballing keeper, but that particular ability apart, he's a one man disaster area. Hope I'm wrong but it's hard to ever see him cutting it in this ale house league

 

[blueinsa]

True, but few have looked so ill equipped physically, as well as in terms of technique. I know Pep wants a footballing keeper, but that particular ability apart, he's a one man disaster area. Hope I'm wrong but it's hard to ever see him cutting it in this ale house league

You may well be proven right mate but i dont wont him to fail, i want him to get his confidence and form and make us all look fucking silly to be honest, however unlikely that looks right now.