I know it’s by Ehrman, who’s probably the most prolific minimalist scholar out there and is highly respected, I haven’t read it, no.
“The work of God”?
- Thread starter city2
- Start date
D
D
Deleted member 77198
Guest
Buddha was born to the supposed sterile Maya (don’t know if she was a virgin) who was visited by a white elephant to inform her that a child would come
Thanks mate I had done a bit of research on it myself when I came to faith, I wanted to test it and therefore did look at the historical evidence as well.I found this article on Wiki quite interesting. It names the sources, both Christian and non Christian. It does seem that there is no contemporary document but there is a plethora of references within the first century of his death. You may well have seen this but i found it useful.
Sources for the historicity of Jesus - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
The key bit for me is those that were willing to die for what they saw.
I don’t expect everyone to believe it but that certainly helped my faith.
It’s a good post for the thread anyway.
Magicpole
Well-Known Member
But he also backs slavery. Or do they not count as neighbours? The thing about all the horrific books of Abraham, their devotees tapdance over the morally bankrupt and evil.stuff, which each book unis drenched in by pointing out nice bits
That's like reading Peter Sutcliffe was kind to dogs and claiming he was misunderstood. That wouldn't change how evil he was, and your tapdancing over the horrors, clearly shows a uncritical approach to the entire text. Then on top of that, you need to accept a supernatural all knowing being who thought the world was created before light/the sun. Its not just a flight of self deluding fancy, it's a fucking 1000 plane rationality bombing mission.
Jesus doesn’t back slavery.
This is one of those Internet related claims like “empty seats” or “Blair’s a war criminal”, people see it and repeat it and it snowballs.
matthew and luke are copies from mark, you really can't deny that
you are cherry picking the nice bits to suit your narrative again
full of tolerance and compassion...not
cruelty in matthew - Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
mark -
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
49 For every one shall be salted with fire
luke -
But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say,
11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
12 But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.
13 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes.
14 But it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment, than for you.
15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.
john -
Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
BimboBob
Well-Known Member
Just waiting on Ban to have another dream where it was all a dream and he had a shower and slipped or something and didn't see God beaming down with Jesus sucking him off.
La la la la it was all a dream la la la
La la la la it was all a dream la la la
urban genie
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 11 May 2008
- Messages
- 35,118
Phone has issues, much like this place ;-)
Are you seriously needing me to explain parables to you now?
It’s actually very funny you’ve googled that and think Jesus was literally telling people to cut their feet off.
It means, if getting drunk, for example, makes you sin and turn away from God, stop it.
It means if your phone is making it easier for you to watch pornography, get rid of it.
Throughout the Gospels He talks in hyperbole and parables and metaphors, to get the message across.
literally nobody, not even atheist critics agree with the assessment that He meant to literally do any of those things.
That chapter of John is absolutely ridiculous to post in that context!
Are you purposefully lying or have you just copied it and pasted from a website that’s lying?
It’s from John Chapter 5 and the man cannot walk, Jesus heals him and makes him walk and the man carries the mat he was begging on into the temple to tell the priests he was healed by Jesus. The Pharisees try to punish him for carrying his mat on the sabbath, Jesus comes back and warns the man he’ll get in trouble if he sins in front of them again.
I can’t cope anymore, it’s actually making me laugh.
Saddleworth2
Well-Known Member
That is pretty offensive mate. And I expect not just to bj.
BimboBob
Well-Known Member
Haha...you said bj.
Saddleworth2
Well-Known Member
Haha, so I did. Still offensive though imo.
its a veiled threat sin no more or you will be worse than cripple, no parable there its a threat, i would say who are you to threaten me
if he didn't mean why say it
D
D
Deleted member 77198
Guest
He also is said to have said:
But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children,and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
They which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
There are many quotes showing this level of preparedness for hatred of family, eternal hell for non-believers, discouraging family love, discouraging marriage, encouraging castration, encouraging self mutilation...
If he was real and really did say these things, he appears to be very similar to those cult leaders from the 1960s who made people hate and disown their own families. He seemed to want to scare people into following him or they’d burn for eternity in hell and was prepared to send anyone who didn’t believe to that eternal fire.
He was eager to destroy entire cities as well:
His disciples were prepared to be killed for their beliefs much like those brainwashed suicide cults like at Jonestown were prepared to commit suicide for their cult leader.
He’s literally just been told off, the man, by the Pharisees for sinning, Jesus has made him able to walk again and comes back and says “stop sinning or something worse may happen to you”. He’s blatantly talking about the Pharisees, who, in literally the next passage are trying to kill Jesus too.
Can I just take a couple? I mean, all of them are explainable in context but the problem is, you and @tonea2003 are Googling as many negative things he’s supposed to have said, and it’s giving you parables, which people think are literal instructions.
You can go through the whole Bible and find these, easily take them out of context, missing the meaning and apply it to what you think it says.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
This one is easy, in Christianity, God will not force Himself on you like some needy girlfriend who won’t leave you alone if you don’t want to be with her. If you don’t want to believe it and you reject the idea, you can walk away.
Regarding your post on “hatred for family” that cannot be further from the truth. Jesus preached about honouring thy mother and father and not doing so is a sin. The family unit is a centre piece of Christianity, and a centre piece of it applied to society on earth.
As I said in my previous post, anyone who’s read the Bible or even has a limited understanding of it, knows self mutilation isn’t literally being taught.
JESUS TALKED IN PARABLES
Parable definition: a simple story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson.
It is not to be taken literally, nobody at the time, nor now, thinks it is.
The first one, I’ve just googled an answer for, rather than me thinking of it on the spot, like the last one I’ve answered, as I cannot remember it exactly but this answer online gives you the perfect response:
“The verse is part of a parable that Jesus taught. The parable seems intended to teach about the judgment of God at this point. It does not suggest that human governance should even follow this example. He merely uses what could and often did happen to illustrate a point of God's supreme governance.
Thus, this verse has nothing to do with an individual turning the other cheek, nor does it speak to the idea of human governance at all. What it does teach is that all mankind will one day face the judgment of God. Those who have hated and rejected God will not be with him in eternity.”
Oh and just on 60’s cult leaders, Jesus’s kingdom was not of this world and people were to obey the world of the land. You’re whole behaviour is based on being kind to others and remaining in the situation, such as job, home, body, you are in and changing spiritually. For example the Bible teaches that if you found Christ and weren’t circumcised, then don’t do it, there’s no need.
It couldn’t be less like a 60’s cult.
Last edited:
where's he being told off?? all i can read is jesus cures him then finds him later in temple(no reason given why he's there) and then threatens him to sin no more or a worse fate awaits
ok its a bit of a telling off for carrying his bed, i guess you can read it either way who threatening who
and did he spend his whole life talking in parables or just when it suits you, he will have spoke literally most of the time, how the hell were most of these illiterate peasants expect to understand him if he's talking in riddles all the time
Last edited:
It was punishable by death to break the sabbath, in literally the next chapter, the Pharisees try to kill Jesus for healing the man on the sabbath.
And He claims to be the sabbath, again punishable by death because that is claiming to be of the divine.
You do ancient people a disservice by your criticisms of them. Stories were how they communicated and Jesus used parables because the local traditions at the time were reliant on these types of stories to learn.