“The work of God”?

[KS55]

Science and religion aren’t mutually exclusive.

Science has shown us there’s a Big Bang, which religion arrived at there being a beginbefore science.

Science has shown us the universe is incredibly finely tuned and “looks as though it’s been created” I think, according to Einstein?

Also, eye witness accounts are taken in a court of law now, especially independent ones, so why are they so readily dismissed now?

Atheism doesn’t have a monopoly on science, it’s a belief that also takes faith.

Are you going to claim you know more about science than Francis Collins or John Lennox?

By the way, your comparison to a flat earther would be a reasonable one if we’d found the body of Christ and then I still believed in the Gospels, that would be a ridiculous thing for me to do as there is evidence I can view about the truth, just like now, where I can see the curvature of the world.

It’s a lazy, stupid argument.

Twice now, you have stated that atheism requires faith. This is a old ploy by religious people to try to establish that faith is a legitimate source of truth or belief. But it is just a ploy. Atheism does not require anything resembling faith, it merely calls for evidence. Which article of faith (that is a belief that something is true, despite a lack of evidence) does atheism require?

 

[SWP's back]

Why are you so angry?

Because you’re a good poster and you’re either lying or purposely mis-describing something.

Atheism is not a belief system. It is only a absence of one particular (peculiar) belief. It’s not a worldview, it’s not a religion, it’s not (for the most part - ie for the majority) based in any science. Everyone is born an atheist, theism is learned and dependent upon one’s received teachings, period in history and geographical birthplace. Chances are you’d be a Muslim if you were born in Sudan or believe in fucking sun gods if born in what is now Southern Mexico (800 years ago) or Egypt 4,000 years ago.

You (personally) don’t take a scientific, philosophical stance against Zeus. You simply don’t believe such a character exists. You also do the same for about 4,500 other flavours of deity. I personally just go one deity further than you.

You can (and may) believe in whatever the fuck you like (and bully for you!) but please don’t mischaracterise an absence of belief in that specific thing for other posters.

 

[SWP's back]

For the record, atheism comes with attachments, around views on morality and a scientific view of how the universe came to be.

No it doesn’t. Again that’s a wilful mischaracterisation

You don’t believe there’s a higher morality than your own brain, you believe the universe came to be by random chance.

There is no such thing as steadfast morality. Your morality is born only of the social zeitgeist of your time on earth and is entirely man made. If you want to not kill because you think you’d go to hell then that’s on you. I decide not to kill because I’m not (again for the most part) a ****

Whether you admit it or not, it is a belief system.

It is the exact opposite.

 

[Ban-jani]

Atheism is disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. That's nothing to do with science. It's to do with not believing in fairytales

Do you acknowledge that if you are an atheist, then you are then making a scientific assumption based on the universe?

 

[KS55]

For the record, atheism comes with attachments, around views on morality and a scientific view of how the universe came to be.

You don’t believe there’s a higher morality than your own brain, you believe the universe came to be by random chance.

Whether you admit it or not, it is a belief system.

Oh, and now you use the ploy of using "belief system" as synonymous with "religious belief system". You sound like a sophist or a polititian. You wont persuade anybody of anything using semantic mumbo jumbo. St. Anselm's ontological proof? Better stick to bigging up your own belief.

 

[Chippy_boy]

And @Ban-jani, sorry to disappoint you mate, but there is the square-root of fuck all chance of their being a "God" in the sense that Christians might believe in one. Sure, there will likely be beings in the universe which are vastly more intelligent than us. Heck, I am even prepared to speculate that perhaps the universe as we perceive it has been created by such a being - although I think the chances of that are remote.

But the idea that there is some God in the Christian sense - an all powerful, omni-present being who is looking down on all of us and knows all our inner-most thoughts etc. Frankly, it's utterly ludicrous. It beggars belief that in the 21st century anyone could still believe in such utter poppycock.

What is pretty patently evident is that humans when in deep shit, feel comforted by the idea of someone who's got your back, so to speak. Religion is nothing more than a mental crutch to enable people to get through the crap which actual life throws at them. It's a convenient lie, that is all.

 

[wattle]

Do you acknowledge that if you are an atheist, then you are then making a scientific assumption based on the universe?

No I don’t. I’m saying I’m not nuts enough to believe in a man in the sky with a beard

 

[KS55]

Do you acknowledge that if you are an atheist, then you are then making a scientific assumption based on the universe?

More semantic nonsense. @wattle stated it plain. The difference between the steady state view of the universe and the big bang view needed no religious dimension.
Ok, what assumption?

 

[Magicpole]

Atheism has everything to do with science, it claims there is no intelligent design to the universe, that’s a scientific, philosophical and faith based belief system.

No I was, I’ve been an atheist most of my life, I talked about my conversion a few pages back, my parents are agnostic.

If someone commits a murder and there’s a billion theories about who did it and why, does it mean the actual truth isn’t the truth because of other theories?

The truth is the truth. It's that simple. The world 8s 4.5billion years old. People have never lived to be 800. The Ark never happened. Nobody comes back from the dead. Can walk in water, raise the dead. Zombies did not leave their g4aves as Jesus die and walk about. L8tts wife wasn't turned into a pillar if salt. Angels weren't going to get raped until the gut offered up his own daughters. Mises never existed. The Egypt plagues never happened. The sea did not part. I could go on throughout the book. A guy didnt live inside a giant fish.

If anybody claims any of thst shit is real, they are deluding themselves. How can a book be true when it's filled with nonsense any God worth his salt woukd know. Gay people? A God creates them so they can be persecuted? Women are inferior and possessions? It's all made up, a great story and made many great films, but so is Jason and the Argonuats. And all the Greek and Roman classicaltales. written by men.

Unlike you, I was force fed this utter shite and believed most of it, until my critical faculties kicked in. This caused me a shit storm of grief at school and at home. To my mother's dying day she hoped I would return to Faith. But when you realise it's all too contradictory, scientifically baseless and at times hateful and awful, you can't go back. You don't want to. It's a weight off.

 

[SWP's back]

Do you acknowledge that if you are an atheist, then you are then making a scientific assumption based on the universe?

No because that’s bullshit.