10 | Jack Grealish - 2024/25

[meeesh]

Nope, Alcoholism doesn't have those sorts of boundaries.
If anything, money makes it worse, Easier to hide, Easier to stay pissed, More motivated enablers.

No, that's what I was meaning, the money he has he could be pissed everyday for the rest of his life.

 

[Mr Grumpy]

This is totally false.

All alcoholics are different and need to be handled in very different ways. There's no one way that works for everybody, many people who "hit rock bottom" never climb out and end up killing themselves. Suggesting everybody should be handled like this is factually wrong and morally irresponsible.

Hmm.
You are implying my response is unfair because you are assuming it is an absolute statement whilst criticizing me by being absolute yourself (all, everybody).

Do i really need to add the obvious caveat: *For the most part, excluding the extreme or unusual ..blah..blah...blah..."

No. "In general" isn't something that needs to be added.


I'm not going to drag this convo of topic any further. I'll stand by my comments which are based on deeply painful personal experiences.

 

[Barcon]

Would the energy vampires please exit the building?

 

[Lauz9888]

I'll give you an alternative viewpoint from someone who has close hand and very personal experiences with people who are self destructive (Alcoholics).

"the road to hell is paved with good intentions"

Being kind to people who are self destructive only serves to enable them. Alcoholics often are a victim of the enablers as much as themselves. In AA treatments, they look to find who the enablers are. Those who make excuses for the alcoholic, take away their pain, stop them from falling too hard to such an extent that they never get to hit the floor. It's only the harsh reality of the bottom that can save an alcoholic.

"They haven't suffered enough" is a phrase you'll here between alcoholics on both sides of the recovery.

"Don't help those who don't look for it" is another saying.

Jack doesn't need a soft mattress to keep him from hitting the floor. He needs to hit that floor hard enough that it wakes him up. The only way Jack can rise is by reaching the bottom and people who keep putting soft barriers infront of him to stop him reaching his bottom are only serving to delay that fall, sometimes until it is too late.

I don't think we're particularly disagreeing, to be honest. My complaint was more about making unsubstantiated accusations than anything else.

We all have our own experiences of these sorts of behaviours, whether in ourselves or others, and these colour our attitudes towards it.

Addiction was never a problem of mine (and we don't really know for certain that that's Jack's problem either - abuse and addiction are connected but separate concepts and we don't have the evidence to say that he's an alcoholic. Only that he seems to be having some struggles in his life and that appears to be coinciding with an increase in drinking).

But I've been as self-destructive as it's possible to get and I know that recovery comes from within and that the amount of help you can give someone who doesn't want to be helped is minimal.

My experiences mean that when I see someone acting like this I assume it's a mental health hole, because I see the evidence that is available to us and it reminds me of myself at my worst. Other people will look at it and be reminded of some other problem of their own or someone else's. So my opinion is biased by my experiences just as yours will be.

I think there are practical things that the people who are supposed to be taking care of him should be doing. You can't stop whatever's going on in his head and you can't make him seek help for it if he's not ready to. But you can keep him out of the public eye in order to not have the footage and criticism of him plastered all over social media, which is only going to make things worse.

At the moment he looks unwilling or unable to act in his own interests, so someone else has to. Whether it's his apparently close and loving family, any of the many people he probably pays a shitload of money to to help manage his life, or the club as his employer with a vested interest in both his health and his public persona.

 

[Mr Grumpy]

I don't think we're particularly disagreeing, to be honest. My complaint was more about making unsubstantiated accusations than anything else.

We all have our own experiences of these sorts of behaviours, whether in ourselves or others, and these colour our attitudes towards it.

Addiction was never a problem of mine (and we don't really know for certain that that's Jack's problem either - abuse and addiction are connected but separate concepts and we don't have the evidence to say that he's an alcoholic. Only that he seems to be having some struggles in his life and that appears to be coinciding with an increase in drinking).

But I've been as self-destructive as it's possible to get and I know that recovery comes from within and that the amount of help you can give someone who doesn't want to be helped is minimal.

My experiences mean that when I see someone acting like this I assume it's a mental health hole, because I see the evidence that is available to us and it reminds me of myself at my worst. Other people will look at it and be reminded of some other problem of their own or someone else's. So my opinion is biased by my experiences just as yours will be.

I think there are practical things that the people who are supposed to be taking care of him should be doing. You can't stop whatever's going on in his head and you can't make him seek help for it if he's not ready to. But you can keep him out of the public eye in order to not have the footage and criticism of him plastered all over social media, which is only going to make things worse.

At the moment he looks unwilling or unable to act in his own interests, so someone else has to. Whether it's his apparently close and loving family, any of the many people he probably pays a shitload of money to to help manage his life, or the club as his employer with a vested interest in both his health and his public persona.

Good post. Agreed for the most part.

 

[MillisleBlue]

Whether with us or elsewhere, I hope Jack gets the help I suspect he needs.

 

[CΛL]

Not sure why you all seem to think he’s an alcoholic but regardless of his drinking and unprofessionalism as an athlete, he’s just simply not good enough to play for us anymore.

If he stops the drinking he isn’t suddenly going to become good enough, I have doubts that he ever was to begin with.

 

[domalino]

He's an idiot whose been in a more than privileged position, and literally pissing it all away.

He's been disappointing from a football fan's perspective, but take a step back and he's a lad from a nothing background who played for and captained his boyhood club, became a fan favourite for England for a bit, been to a Euros (runners up medal) and World Cup, won a treble with the best team and manager in English football history and made tens of millions doing it, enough to live his life however he wants for the rest of his days and take care of his family.

He's not pissed anything away, he's maybe reached 97% of his potential after working his bollocks off for 25 years and now is probably letting football take a back seat a bit after what he's publicly acknowledged as the most difficult year of his life.

From a City fan's perspective it's annoying - he could have been much better for us - but he's not pissed anything away in the grand scheme of things.

 

[CΛL]

There's a few players whose lifestyle choices are incompatible with being an elite athlete. Grealish is definitely one and most of them are English as well.

It's about time clubs called them out and sacked them, instead of protecting them. It wouldn't happen in any other workplace. They might be shocked into changing their ways then.

You’re allowed to go for a drink on your days off in normal jobs mate

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

This is totally false.

All alcoholics are different and need to be handled in very different ways. There's no one way that works for everybody, many people who "hit rock bottom" never climb out and end up killing themselves. Suggesting everybody should be handled like this is factually wrong and morally irresponsible.

In previous work as a union official we got in professional help to deal with members who had addiction issues. And all said the same thing.

Most addicts are self-deluding. "I can stop any time I want" is a typical response. Where there is a distinction some are "functioning alcoholics' who can lead a seemingly normal life and some drink so much on a regular basis they're incapable of functioning and do hit rock bottom.

So in that sense you might deal with them differently and take a lighter touch with someone who was a functioning alcoholic to stop them falling further.

The question is what you should do about a PL footballer who is a 'functioning alcoholic' that you're paying big money to but isn't in peak condition.

 

[Mr Grumpy]

You’re allowed to go for a drink on your days off in normal jobs mate

The comparison is pointless and actually untrue.

Try being a train driver, taxi driver, pilot, machinery operative, doctor and so on and so forth who relies on physical attributes to do the job.

You can't get hammered on your day off and then rock up into your 747 to fly 500 people across the planet the very next day can you?

 

[pbueno16]

The comparison is pointless and actually untrue.

Try being a train driver, taxi driver, pilot, machinery operative, doctor and so on and so forth who relies on physical attributes to do the job.

You can't get hammered on your day off and then rock up into your 747 to fly 500 people across the planet the very next day can you?

Being a pro athlete isn't quite the same as having lives in your hand though, is it?

 

[CΛL]

The comparison is pointless and actually untrue.

Try being a train driver, taxi driver, pilot, machinery operative, doctor and so on and so forth who relies on physical attributes to do the job.

You can't get hammered on your day off and then rock up into your 747 to fly 500 people across the planet the very next day can you?

What you’ve done there is just pick out a bunch of niche jobs so well done you

Going out with your mates in your 20’s for a drink is totally normal behaviour for the vast majority of the country.

Jacks issue is that he’s been absolutely shite on the pitch, if he was playing well, like Walker always did, nobody would say a thing.

He’s just not good enough at football anymore to start for us. No need to start making up that he’s an alcoholic or saying weird shit like you can’t go for a drink on your day off in normal jobs. Just weird isn’t it?

 

[Mr Grumpy]

Being a pro athlete isn't quite the same as having lives in your hand though, is it?

My day to day performance at work isn't affected by my personal health regime tbh.
If i am a fat, poorly fed, over hydrated, lethargic, unfit mess, i can still do my job.

Not so athletes who's job it is to NOT be a fat, poorly fed, over hydrated, unfit mess because that really does stop them being an athlete and so they can't do their job.

I can get away with a night on the lash, getting the bus into work because i can't drive and then drinking a gallon of coffee to wash away my hangover and still do my job reasonably well.

Jack? Not so much. Thus he is where he is.

 

[pbueno16]

My day to day performance at work isn't affected by my personal health regime tbh.
If i am a fat, poorly fed, over hydrated, lethargic, unfit mess, i can still do my job.

Not so athletes who's job it is to NOT be a fat, poorly fed, over hydrated, unfit mess because that really does stop them being an athlete and so they can't do their job.

I can get away with a night on the lash, getting the bus into work because i can't drive and then drinking a gallon of coffee to wash away my hangover and still do my job reasonably well.

Jack? Not so much. Thus he is where he is.

Then that's on the management for either not giving him the help he needs or avoiding punishing him. Same as any job, since you want to make that comparison, it's management's duty to address issues with their workforce.

 

[pbueno16]

What you’ve done there is just pick out a bunch of niche jobs so well done you

Going out with your mates in your 20’s for a drink is totally normal behaviour for the vast majority of the country.

Jacks issue is that he’s been absolutely shite on the pitch, if he was playing well, like Walker always did, nobody would say a thing.

He’s just not good enough at football anymore to start for us. No need to start making up that he’s an alcoholic or saying weird shit like you can’t go for a drink on your day off in normal jobs. Just weird isn’t it?

To get back on the footballing topic, I think he's played pretty well considering his injuries, lack of game time and the alleged extras he gets up to.

 

[bert38]

You’re allowed to go for a drink on your days off in normal jobs mate

I got hauled before my bosses and got given a bollocking when 2 of my team were spotted pissed up off duty…quite how I was responsible for them I’ve no idea…

One of the keys for athletes is getting recovery right-he’s hardly doing that…off season, no problem, not during the season-it smacks of not giving a shit and hardly the prep for playing.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

You’re allowed to go for a drink on your days off in normal jobs mate

Of course you are but if you do it regularly and it impacted your ability to do your job then you'd expect some pushback.

 

[meeesh]

He's been disappointing from a football fan's perspective, but take a step back and he's a lad from a nothing background who played for and captained his boyhood club, became a fan favourite for England for a bit, been to a Euros (runners up medal) and World Cup, won a treble with the best team and manager in English football history and made tens of millions doing it, enough to live his life however he wants for the rest of his days and take care of his family.

He's not pissed anything away, he's maybe reached 97% of his potential after working his bollocks off for 25 years and now is probably letting football take a back seat a bit after what he's publicly acknowledged as the most difficult year of his life.

From a City fan's perspective it's annoying - he could have been much better for us - but he's not pissed anything away in the grand scheme of things.

Ok I'll rephrase it then, he is currently pissing it away as we speak, at this present time.

Deny that and you are kidding yourself, and I am looking at it from a City fan perspective, they can live and do what they want in their personal lives, that I understand, but in this modern era you cannot mix beer with a modern day pro, olden days some got away with it, not no more.

And listing all that he's won will not be added to wherever he ends up neither,he was a dick when at Villa remember, he was fortunate to be part of City when he was, he will realise that later on in his life, as for England........was a subbed sub, the ultimate insult.

So in the grand scheme of things let's hope he does sort his shit out and looks after his family eh

 

[Goater=Legend]

Feel like he checked out after the treble, the drive to keep pushing isn't there anymore.

Maybe he can enjoy his years at Spurs with Maddison turning up now and again.