#11 | Oleksandr Zinchenko - 2020/21 Performances

[Tugay One Cup]

So if you don't mind could you explain how you came to the conclusion Zinchenko was abject against Dortmund?

I'm guessing he couldn't stomach a tense game and changed the channel after we conceded.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

So if you don't mind could you explain how you came to the conclusion Zinchenko was abject against Dortmund?

Out of sheer luck - his giving the ball away at least 3 times in the first 15 minutes of the game - out of sheer luck I repeat - somehow or other - didn't result in a goal or 3 for Dortmund - really - look at the game. The guy was awful.

The above isn't hyperbole at all - that Dortmund didn't score because of those repeateded fuckups is beyond me.

But that's Zenchenko at his worst.

At his best, when not under pressure, he can deliver a good pass into the box and can sometimes link play effectively.

Under pressure though - he invariably pulls up and passes the ball back - he doesn't trust his ability under pressure - with good reason.

Numerous fast break opportunities break down when the ball is passed to a semi-covered Zinchenko - he's not good enough to find the next good forward pass.

And this - for me - is exactly why Zenchenko is a good backup/utility player - at the same time, he's not nearly good enough to start in an important tie.

Too, left back isn't Zenchenko's best position - but he's forced to play there because of our lack of depth at LB. So sometime's he doesn't know what he's doing and gets out of position. Too, he's not particularly great at the position - sometimes letting a defender into the box instead of cutting off that line - and sometimes failing to cut off a cross.
===
For whatever reason, there seems to be a Zenchenko fan-boy squad going - somehow overlooking his obvious liabilities and thinking that he's a perfectly good left back, one we'd be glad to start in our side against any competition.

It's obvious - at least to me - that this isn't so at all.

 

[samarasra]

Out of sheer luck - his giving the ball away at least 3 times in the first 15 minutes of the game - out of sheer luck I repeat - somehow or other - didn't result in a goal or 3 for Dortmund - really - look at the game. The guy was awful.
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Stones, at his worst, wasn't this error prone - unfortunately, Stones' errors are usually punished.
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The above isn't hyperbole at all - that Dortmund didn't score because of those repeateded fuckups is beyond me.
===
But that's Zenchenko at his worst.

At his best, when not under pressure, he can deliver a good pass into the box and can sometimes link play effectively.
===
Under pressure though - he invariably pulls up and passes the ball back - he doesn't trust his ability under pressure - with good reason.

Numerous fast break opportunities break down when the ball is passed to a semi-covered Zinchenko - he's not good enough to find the next good forward pass.

And this - for me - is exactly why Zenchenko is a good backup/utility player - at the same time, he's not nearly good enough to start in an important tie.

Too, left back isn't Zenchenko's best position - but he's forced to play there because of our lack of depth at LB. So sometime's he doesn't know what he's doing and gets out of position. Too, he's not particularly great at the position - sometimes letting a defender into the box instead of cutting off that line - and sometimes failing to cut off a cross.
===
For whatever reason, there seems to be a Zenchenko fan-boy squad going - somehow overlooking his obvious liabilities and thinking that he's a perfectly good left back, one we'd be glad to start in our side against any competition.

It's obvious - at least to me - that this isn't so at all.

For such a thorough critique of a player the least you could do is spell his name correctly, or does this "Zenchenko" you refer to, play for some other club.
What is obvious, to me at least, is that your comment "Under pressure though - he invariably pulls up and passes the ball back - he doesn't trust his ability under pressure - with good reason." demonstrates how deficient your knowledge of basic football strategy is and how little you know of his role within the team. Fortunately the chief "fan-boy", Pep, sees what you fail to see.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

For such a thorough critique of a player the least you could do is spell his name correctly, or does this "Zenchenko" you refer to, play for some other club.
What is obvious, to me at least, is that your comment "Under pressure though - he invariably pulls up and passes the ball back - he doesn't trust his ability under pressure - with good reason." demonstrates how deficient your knowledge of basic football strategy is and how little you know of his role within the team. Fortunately the chief "fan-boy", Pep, sees what you fail to see.

We can trade barbs as you will.

But watch games - I'm not making this up. Zinchenko under pressure isn't a Gundogan/Silva/De Bruyne/Cancelo/Rodri/and so on and so forth - he's simply not anywhere near close to that good. Under pressure in a forward going situation - he passes the ball back. Because he's not good enough to find the next forward pass.

If you disagree with the above - you seem to be a member of the Zinchenko fan club.

If however, you agree with me that ZInchenko isn't good enough to start for us in an important tie - than why they fuck are you posting such nonsence?
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And I've yet to reiterate the unopposed statements I've made about Zinchenko's defensive lapses at left back - he's at best maybe OK on defense at left back - but a defensive liability against quality opposition.
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I'll conclude with this - you seem to be a Zinchenko fan boy - thinking that he's A-OK to start him at left back against top competition. And that we need not seek an improvement at this position as a top priority in the next window.

Is that really what you think?

 

[samarasra]

We can trade barbs as you will.

But watch games - I'm not making this up. Zinchenko under pressure isn't a Gundogan/Silva/De Bruyne/Cancelo/Rodri/and so on and so forth - he's simply not anywhere near close to that good. Under pressure in a forward going situation - he passes the ball back. Because he's not good enough to find the next forward pass.

If you disagree with the above - you seem to be a member of the Zinchenko fan club.

If however, you agree with me that ZInchenko isn't good enough to start for us in an important tie - than why they fuck are you posting such nonsence?
===
And I've yet to reiterate the unopposed statements I've made about Zinchenko's defensive lapses at left back - he's at best maybe OK on defense at left back - but a defensive liability against quality opposition.
===
I'll conclude with this - you seem to be a Zinchenko fan boy - thinking that he's A-OK to start him at left back against top competition. And that we need not seek an improvement at this position as a top priority in the next window.

Is that really what you think?

I have no intention of trading "barbs" with you, there are plenty of knowledgeable football fans on here to do that with. I have read your previous posts and it appears football is not your priority interest in this site. I have watched football and City in particular, whenever possible for nearly 60 years, your infantile references to "fan boys" and "the Zinchenko fan club", combined with the lack of football tactical nous in your comments suggests you are new to the sport. Maybe watch a football coaching video, read some coaching books, learn before preaching, and you might make more sense and show less arrogance when you express your opinions here. Meanwhile enjoy watching a high class football team, while it lasts.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

I have no intention of trading "barbs" with you, there are plenty of knowledgeable football fans on here to do that with. I have read your previous posts and it appears football is not your priority interest in this site. I have watched football and City in particular, whenever possible for nearly 60 years, your infantile references to "fan boys" and "the Zinchenko fan club", combined with the lack of football tactical nous in your comments suggests you are new to the sport. Maybe watch a football coaching video, read some coaching books, learn before preaching, and you might make more sense and show less arrogance when you express your opinions here. Meanwhile enjoy watching a high class football team, while it lasts.

I'm elated that you are not interested in trading barbs - and by all accounts are instead interested in trading football perspectives! How mistaken I've been!

But, help me out, please. Are these not barbs?
>> your infantile references to "fan boys" and "the Zinchenko fan club"
>> combined with the lack of football tactical nous in your comments
>> Maybe watch a football coaching video, read some coaching books, learn before preaching, and you might make more sense and show less arrogance

That said - I stand by all of my comments.

And rather than provide arguments in support of your opinion, you have instead felt the need to proclaim your own expertise in all matters football - and especially in all matters Manchester City - because you're over the age of 60 - and then, should that argument fail - base insults are in order.
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Look, it's clear - I don't trust Zinchenko at all when starting against a top club. He's not good enough.

I do however, value him as a squad player - he's talented enough to fill a backup role. And when not under pressure, he's actually pretty good.
===
You differ in opinion - obviously. Rather than insult me, why not provide arguments in support of your position?

 

[samarasra]

I'm elated that you are not interested in trading barbs - and by all accounts are instead interested in trading football perspectives! How mistaken I've been!

But, help me out, please. Are these not barbs?
>> your infantile references to "fan boys" and "the Zinchenko fan club"
>> combined with the lack of football tactical nous in your comments
>> Maybe watch a football coaching video, read some coaching books, learn before preaching, and you might make more sense and show less arrogance

That said - I stand by all of my comments.

And rather than provide arguments in support of your opinion, you have instead felt the need to proclaim your own expertise in all matters football - and especially in all matters Manchester City - because you're over the age of 60 - and then, should that argument fail - base insults are in order.
===
Look, it's clear - I don't trust Zinchenko at all when starting against a top club. He's not good enough.

I do however, value him as a squad player - he's talented enough to fill a backup role. And when not under pressure, he's actually pretty good.
===
You differ in opinion - obviously. Rather than insult me, why not provide arguments in support of your position?

Read the previous 89 pages of this thread for a cross section of other
posters opinions.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

Read the previous 89 pages of this thread for a cross section of other
posters opinions.

Thanks for your well thought-out response - very detailed in explaining how Zinchenko is in fact good under pressure, understands his position at left back - and is a welcome addition at left back for any side wishing to excel at local and national competition...

Save that... in fact - you've failed to engage me with examples for why Zinchenko is worthy of a starting role against quality opposition in our side.
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My points again:
1) When not under pressure, ZInchenko, performs well - often delivering telling crosses into the box. And yet this skill level isn't rare at all - nearly anyone in world football - in the P/L or indeed in lower leagues can do this;
2) Zinchenko isn't a natural left back - this isn't his position. As a result he makes positional/tactical errors quite often;
3) When under pressure, he's prone to big mistakes - giving the ball away on defense - or on offense, turning about and instead of delivering a killer forward pass - kills a promising offensive attack by passing the ball safely sideways or backwards.
---
Zinchenko - as backup in games that aren't crucial for us to win - hell yes! Start him (in most cases).

But in crucial ties - where we need to win - he's simply not good enough - not nearly so.

Latest point in case - Zinchenko - single handedly - nearly cost us the tie against Dortmund three times (at least) within the opening 15 minutes of one our of most important ties so far this year.

 

[samarasra]

Thanks for your well thought-out response - very detailed in explaining how Zinchenko is in fact good under pressure, understands his position at left back - and is a welcome addition at left back for any side wishing to excel at local and national competition...

Save that... in fact - you've failed to engage me with examples for why Zinchenko is worthy of a starting role against quality opposition in our side.
---
My points again:
1) When not under pressure, ZInchenko, performs well - often delivering telling crosses into the box. And yet this skill level isn't rare at all - nearly anyone in world football - in the P/L or indeed in lower leagues can do this;
2) Zinchenko isn't a natural left back - this isn't his position. As a result he makes positional/tactical errors quite often;
3) When under pressure, he's prone to big mistakes - giving the ball away on defense - or on offense, turning about and instead of delivering a killer forward pass - kills a promising offensive attack by passing the ball safely sideways or backwards.
---
Zinchenko - as backup in games that aren't crucial for us to win - hell yes! Start him (in most cases).

But in crucial ties - where we need to win - he's simply not good enough - not nearly so.

Latest point in case - Zinchenko - single handedly - nearly cost us the tie against Dortmund three times (at least) within the opening 15 minutes of one our of most important ties so far this year.

I've read your "points", they are addressed over the previous 89 pages by me and numerous others, some even agree with some of your points. Troll someone else you disagree with, with your "fan-boy" crap.

 

[CmonCity92]

Very slow first 10 but grew into the game as he did vs Dortmund. They looked to be targeting him early with Traore. Classy player.