2020 US Elections

[BobKowalski]

I think the last line is the stickler, for me. Sure, he's a gaffe machine, a bit thick and self centered, but the "I'm not him" rhetoric is wearing. Who is this aimed at? If it's purely because it's his sexism and general nonsense, fair enough, but that doesn't work when he's not had any Bills written[yet] that affect the Black community.

The other one has.



So, my question is, since Biden knew this had been the issue since 1994 he's had the chance to champion a policy change and apologise before and since 2008, I don't understand (nor do many) why this wasn't something to tackle in 'the first 100 days' in office? This action would have resonated under a Black president for the Black community.

As a said to DocBob, this pres hasn't written any laws that affect the Black community as of yet. I wonder if you'd pose a question to your wife to separate the other issues dogging #45 away from the discussion on the Black community and see what she says then.

Judging things in isolation is very different than a pile on.

Honestly, my wife loathes Trump. Her views on Trump would get her banned from this board. To her, it is about character, to her Trump is a racist piece of shit, an empty suit devoid of empathy, intelligence or morals and unfit for the office he holds.

She felt this from the moment Trump entered the race in 2016 and feels vindicated by everything that has happened since. She does not have the same reaction to Biden. She may agree or disagree on policies but he doesn‘t make her vomit.

That view, in varying degrees, is the view of the mainly American black women she chats with. They are all middle aged women, most with kids and some that are struggling right now.

I have no idea what this says about the Presidential race or how representative it is.

 

[Bigga]

Honestly, my wife loathes Trump. Her views on Trump would get her banned from this board. To her, it is about character, to her Trump is a racist piece of shit, an empty suit devoid of empathy, intelligence or morals and unfit for the office he holds.

She felt this from the moment Trump entered the race in 2016 and feels vindicated by everything that has happened since. She does not have the same reaction to Biden. She may agree or disagree on policies but he doesn‘t make her vomit.

That view, in varying degrees, is the view of the mainly American black women she chats with. They are all middle aged women, most with kids and some that are struggling right now.

I have no idea what this says about the Presidential race or how representative it is.

Thanks for the response.

I find it super interesting that character comes before policies.

I hope you understand my point as it's not a slight on your wife, but the neolib trick is this very factor about character over policy. We've seen it in the attacks over here on any Labour politician who wants to lift the working class and the same in the US.

I'm fascinated by the bleed through of this kind of message drilling in politics.

 

[BobKowalski]

Thanks for the response.

I find it super interesting that character comes before policies.

I hope you understand my point as it's not a slight on your wife, but the neolib trick is this very factor about character over policy. We've seen it in the attacks over here on any Labour politician who wants to lift the working class and the same in the US.

I'm fascinated by the bleed through of this kind of message drilling in politics.

Character is important, that is my belief too. You cannot divorce policies from character. Policies, beliefs are born out of character. Character tells us who you are and if we know who and what you are, we know what you will do when given the chance. Trump is a classic example of that.

You cannot divorce one from the other, or say policies matter more than characters of the leader or leaders of a party because people instinctively disbelieve it. If you say character doesn’t matter, then are you saying you don’t trust the man who is leading you? If you don’t, why should I, the voter?

Yes the press attack character rather than policy, but then elect someone to lead who is relatively immune from those attacks.

Biden‘s character is under attack, sleepy joe, gaga, and he is doing a lot better than I expected to be honest. The attacks are not impacting because they look absurd. Biden is performing and campaigning effectively and to a wide a base as possible. Attacks on character need some element of truth to work.

 

[Vic]

Stephen Collins cartoon in last week's Guardian Weekend. A TV show: "Welcome to undecided maniac reckon-time", "focussing on the nation's inexplicably vacillatory weirdos".

"I just can't decide whether I prefer the human one or the reality-distorting vortex of chaos that wants me to die."

"I'm going to say something about 'hearing the policies' to make my bizarre disengagement seem like an intellectual virtue."

"Well thanks folks. On tomorrow's show, 'ice cream or cyanide: a nation decides'."

 

[Vic]

Thanks for the response.

I find it super interesting that character comes before policies.

I hope you understand my point as it's not a slight on your wife, but the neolib trick is this very factor about character over policy. We've seen it in the attacks over here on any Labour politician who wants to lift the working class and the same in the US.

I'm fascinated by the bleed through of this kind of message drilling in politics.

So you think the policies are all the same neolib policies, but neolibs are pushing character over policy, so you don't want even to choose between the ice cream character or the cyanide character.

 

[andyhinch]

Thanks for the response.

I find it super interesting that character comes before policies.

I hope you understand my point as it's not a slight on your wife, but the neolib trick is this very factor about character over policy. We've seen it in the attacks over here on any Labour politician who wants to lift the working class and the same in the US.

I'm fascinated by the bleed through of this kind of message drilling in politics.

I love you throwing in neolib in are they a party ?

 

[DrBlueBob]

I think the last line is the stickler, for me. Sure, he's a gaffe machine, a bit thick and self centered, but the "I'm not him" rhetoric is wearing. Who is this aimed at? If it's purely because it's his sexism and general nonsense, fair enough, but that doesn't work when he's not had any Bills written[yet] that affect the Black community.

The other one has.

Sorry, I should have been clearer. I meant I agree with you but given the other candidate is Trump, well just vote for sleepy Joe and lobby the progressives in the Democrat party.

In answer to your broader q re how has it come to this. I obviously know as much (probably less) than others but a thought occurred that each person casts their own vote ostensibly for themselves and whilst most people would agree with a better distribution of wealth and fairer social policies, if they see that this will hurt them in their own sphere financial, social tec then they will likely vote to keep the status quo.

Take Trump's rhetoric regarding Biden wanting to wreck the suburbs. In theory of course you want the poor to be looked after but maybe if you are worried that it may be your way of life that has an element of society that is unknown to you and possibly even feared (not necessarily physically) then you will likely vote to keep the status quo.

Life is tough and you work hard to get where you are and if the seed of doubt is there that all your hard work may be of more benefit to someone else ie by higher taxes or whatever then you could be forgiven for resisting. The central tenet of what I am trying to say that it isn't just politics that is broken, more that politics reflects the masses in society.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Being white and British, I just think it comes down to simple things.

Trump is erratic and panders to the far right. He has shown that the Republicans under his Presidency with McConnell will subvert as much as they can to drive America to the right. China and Russia both have strings of his they pull, and he has zero interest in the big world picture. He is undoing everything he can about the environment, in favour of claims (mostly untrue) about all his mines and 'clean coal', and building pipelines through the Arctic. He also has an absolute disregard for the truth in almost everything, including irrelevant things that are easy to disprove (last week guest on Oprah came up again this week). Oh, and his pro-rich taxcuts are sending the US economy to the brink when the chickens come home to roost, and he's deadset on getting rid of Obamacare without having any replacement st up when he does - that is insane behaviour. He has backed Erdogan, and believes that bullying and abuse is acceptable behaviour in every area, viewing just about any policy in terms of dollars not social value. He's barely produced any ideas of what he is actually planning to do for four years, although it's a safe bet it will involve promotion and enriching of Trump family members. Black Lives Matter = Antifa.

Biden isn't perfect, and he's not the most dynamic. He's not that reforming himself, but has Harris who will want to run in 2024 and Sanders has backed him. He's produced an idea on record of how to address SCOTUS issues. Mostly he has very few of the features I've just listed above.

The careering to the cliffedge on any area (economy, climate, race) has to be slowed in order for it to stop. I think Biden will, and Trump will continue destruction in pursuit of greed.

 

[blueinsa]

Her views on Trump would get her banned from this board.

They wouldn't.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

"Wind kills all the birds"

I’m a martyr to it.