2020 US Elections

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domalino said:
Why is getting Trump out good for America?

His trade wars were fucking the economy before coronavirus. His tax-cut for the rich increased the national debt by 50% in under 4 years. He wanted to kill medicare for all during a pandemic. He refused to pass an economic package to help people during the pandemic, but gave 2 trillion to big business.

He killed a few hundred thousand by lying about the virus, he made the country best prepared for a pandemic suffer the worst from it. He refused to use a prepared pandemic playbook because Obama implemented it. He gave out PPE and emergency equipment based on states being republican/democrat. He gave billions of dollars worth of contracts for PPE to his donors who never delivered working PPE.

He appointed 200 partisan judges, some of whom were deemed unfit for the office, he stoked the racial tensions in the country at every opportunity, he banned muslims from entering the country, he stripped protections for immigrant children. He forcibly deported 60,000 haitians who were being allowed to live and work in the US while Haiti rebuilds from the earthquake.

He asked a foreign country to interfere in the election. He caused the biggest government lockdown in history. He made a well known white supremacist his head strategist. He assassinated Iran's #2 general in a foreign country without notifying anyone.

He destroyed whistleblower protections, he had his people illegally spread the name of the whistleblower who came forward against him and then sought out a personal vendetta that spread to even firing Lt Vindman's brother from the army.

He took the US out of the paris climate accord, approved oil pipelines through protected land, he stripped protections from the national forests, he gutted the EPA and replaced qualified, experienced people with donors and oil/gas lobbyists. He made a climate change denier the head of the white house committee on climate change, he made an anti-abortion lobbyist the head of the family planning program in poor areas.

And then there's all the day to day little stuff - the racism, the sexism, the general degrading of the office, the destroying of the everyday norms that make things work - like following a court order or subpoena, instead of forcing every single one into the courts for 6 months.

So that's the stuff "anyone but trump" won't do.

And so it's great for Americans and it's great for us because the American economy, their attitude to the environment and their politics in general all effects us. Look how BLM spread to this country or how Steve Bannon and Cambridge analytica brought their election meddling to Britain. Think about how we negotiate a trade deal with someone who thinks he has to be the out and out, unbeatable winner of every deal he makes.
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Cheers for that very informative/interesting reply.

What about the question i asked,regarding Biden?
 
Fame Monster said:
I don't think it's as simple as college-educated = wisest choice.

The Nazi movement was mainly rooted in the middle class which back then was a byword for 'educated' and was backed by many intellectuals, most infamously Martin Heidegger. The working class vote went to the communists.

Even in the UK, Corbynism was a middle-class enterprise supported by intellectuals. The working class, non-university educated vote went to the Tories.

I don't know the breakdown for other movements but I'm sure there'll be plenty of occasions where the intelligentsia have got it wrong so I don't think we should sneer at the non-college educated too much.
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I didn't use Corbyn as an example tbh and disagree that he is an example of what I'm talking about, and I'm not sneering at the non-college educated.

Of course the Nazi movement, like all others, had intelligent people at their centre but the reason they were successful was that they appealed to the masses who for whatever reason felt the most disconnected and disenfranchised from the state, and were susceptible to propaganda.

Agree that the intelligentsia sometimes get things wrong but it's not a reason to ignore informed opinion and rely on the equivalent of a loudmouth down the pub instead.
 
Gaudion M said:
I dont think any bring anything directly.

People bang on about a trade deal but the reality is that the US have very low regulation and environmental standards. So why would we allow them in to compete with our firms. There is a reason why the EU have no trade deal and the same applies to us - governments own figures show there is little to gain from increased trade with the US.

The bigger picture is regarding basic decency and evidence based politics. Trump and Brexit come from the same space where you say any old bollocks to back up your bat shit crazy agenda. The result is a fu*king mess as seen over the last 4 years, getting rid of Trump is a step in the right direction of rejecting that brand of pollitics.
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Let’s have it right - there was bollocks spouted on both sides of the Brexit debate. Both campaigns were a complete shit show full of scaremongering. The difference between what is currently going on in the States though is that most of the bollocks from Leave and Remain, which while unsubstantiated, could be put down to predictions of what may or may not happen in future. Like it or not, that’s what happens in politics and politicians do that shite all the time. However, at no point during the EU Referendum did either side claim there was voter fraud without any supporting evidence or ask for the counting to be stopped. That’s a different level altogether and for a sitting US president to be responsible for it is as laughable as it gets.
 
domalino said:
Why is getting Trump out good for America?

His trade wars were fucking the economy before coronavirus. His tax-cut for the rich increased the national debt by 50% in under 4 years. He wanted to kill medicare for all during a pandemic. He refused to pass an economic package to help people during the pandemic, but gave 2 trillion to big business.

He killed a few hundred thousand by lying about the virus, he made the country best prepared for a pandemic suffer the worst from it. He refused to use a prepared pandemic playbook because Obama implemented it. He gave out PPE and emergency equipment based on states being republican/democrat. He gave billions of dollars worth of contracts for PPE to his donors who never delivered working PPE.

He appointed 200 partisan judges, some of whom were deemed unfit for the office, he stoked the racial tensions in the country at every opportunity, he banned muslims from entering the country, he stripped protections for immigrant children. He forcibly deported 60,000 haitians who were being allowed to live and work in the US while Haiti rebuilds from the earthquake.

He asked a foreign country to interfere in the election. He caused the biggest government lockdown in history. He made a well known white supremacist his head strategist. He assassinated Iran's #2 general in a foreign country without notifying anyone.

He destroyed whistleblower protections, he had his people illegally spread the name of the whistleblower who came forward against him and then sought out a personal vendetta that spread to even firing Lt Vindman's brother from the army.

He took the US out of the paris climate accord, approved oil pipelines through protected land, he stripped protections from the national forests, he gutted the EPA and replaced qualified, experienced people with donors and oil/gas lobbyists. He made a climate change denier the head of the white house committee on climate change, he made an anti-abortion lobbyist the head of the family planning program in poor areas.

And then there's all the day to day little stuff - the racism, the sexism, the general degrading of the office, the destroying of the everyday norms that make things work - like following a court order or subpoena, instead of forcing every single one into the courts for 6 months.

So that's the stuff "anyone but trump" won't do.

And so it's great for Americans and it's great for us because the American economy, their attitude to the environment and their politics in general all effects us. Look how BLM spread to this country or how Steve Bannon and Cambridge analytica brought their election meddling to Britain. Think about how we negotiate a trade deal with someone who thinks he has to be the out and out, unbeatable winner of every deal he makes.
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His 'success' on the economy was off the back of the previous administration's successes, and was more by luck than judgement. Also, he gambled with his tax cut's for the rich, and basically loaded the USA with more debt, hoping that the economy wouldn't overheat before the 2020 election. COVID came along and screwed everything up.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Trump is utterly malign and is not only directly causing this anger and discord, but getting off on it. How anyone cannot see this is utterly beyond me.
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You can see it, as can others, but the point is that there's a large group who love this sort of stuff. They like things simple and polarised, the more polarised the better. They lack the ability to think rationally and logically, which makes them lap up conspiracy theories and similar shit that a few minutes of thought and research would demonstrate were bat-shit crazy.

And the lesson of history is that once. this sort of thing is let out of the bottle, it can be very difficult to get the cork back in.
 
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