2020 US Elections

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Dax777 said:
Here is how I see it.

Democrats want every eligible person to vote and to achieve that they want very little barriers to voting. Thus, they often accuse Republicans of Suppresing the vote anytime Republicans putting in requirements for voting.

Republicans want only people who are legally allowed to vote, voting. Thus, they want rules that apply to everyone in other to guarantee only those legally allowed to vote actually vote. Thus, they often accuse Democrats of commiting Voter Fraud by clearing the barriers to the perpetration of fraud.

If you belong to one side or the other, ot as the case is here often, if you hate one particular guy or his side, then you are likely to recite the talking point of the other side and believe everything else besides that is false or irrelevant.

Now, the legitimate claims and concerns of the 2 sides above notwithstanding both do partake in actions that diminish the legitimacy of elections.

State officials shutting down polling places or mail in drop off spots is a despicable act ( in my opinion) as it limits the voters access and opportunity to cast their vote.

On the other hand, Suing to have candidates kicked off the ballot is also a despicable act (again, in my opinion) as it limits the voters choices of candidates to whom they'd willingly cast their vote.

Now both of the above actions can actually be legitimate. A technicality error on the part of a minor candidate is that candidates fault. Opening an opportunity for the their legitimate dismissal.

Similarly, a State may have limited poll workers especially in times of Covid and thus limit the amount of options (granted, they'd likely target where the limitations will occur to favor the outcome they'd prefer), but this too could be legitimate.

Legitimacy of these actions however may not foster better democracy.

That said, there are illegal actions being perpetrated by both parties. There are well known instances of fraud. And when I say well known instances, I'm talking about prosecuted and convicted cases.

The existence of these cases (and there are lots of them) makes legitimate concerns of fraud a real issue. No matter how much one side plays it down

There are illegitimate actions by both Democrat and Republicans or their adjacent as it relates to fostering democracy.

The talking point of one side (in this case the Democrats) exemplified by the Domalino post does not change what's true about Suppression, Fraud and tactics that overall diminishes Democracy.

It wasn't just for me though, clearly many including his staff heard exactly what I heard and made him correct the record.
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The bravado of the truly ignorant or the deliberately duplicitous.

Moral equivalence, the weapon of choice for the devious masquerading as the voice of reason.

​

 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
They need to win big in the election to stand any chance of getting things straightened out.
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I remember reading around the time of Obama's first term that demographic changes were going to kill of the GOP dominance in a couple of years and that they would have to change or die. What happened is they didn't change they just went for massive scale gerrymandering and voter suppression. But even that is not going to help - the issue being that if the Dems now step in and reverse some of the gerrymandering then the GOP are screwed.
 
Gaudion M said:
I remember reading around the time of Obama's first term that demographic changes were going to kill of the GOP dominance in a couple of years and that they would have to change or die. What happened is they didn't change they just went for massive scale gerrymandering and voter suppression. But even that is not going to help - the issue being that if the Dems now step in and reverse some of the gerrymandering then the GOP are screwed.
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They need to oust the likes of Gregg Abbot (Texas Governor) and Doug Burgum (N.Dakota Governor) who are really trying to push the boundaries of voter suppression.
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
They need to oust the likes of Gregg Abbot (Texas Governor) and Doug Burgum (N.Dakota Governor) who are really trying to push the boundaries of voter suppression.
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Agree - places like Texas can seem like a lost cause. But the demographic issue applies there as well. The core argument of what got Obama in to power, un thinkable years earlier, still applies. America is getting less white conservative. Its less white generally and the white vote is growing more progressive with every generation. The GOP are holding back the tide.
 
Bigga said:
Talking of which, whether you like Dore or not, his highlight points out quite a lot on Biden's character...
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Lets have a quick look at where Trumps gets his ideas:

crusader-kkk-trump.jpg
 
Gaudion M said:
Agree - places like Texas can seem like a lost cause. But the demographic issue applies there as well. The core argument of what got Obama in to power, un thinkable years earlier, still applies. America is getting less white conservative. Its less white generally and the white vote is growing more progressive with every generation. The GOP are holding back the tide.
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Hopefully so. Their brand of power is pretty toxic, and it really needs to change.
 
Gaudion M said:
Lets have a quick look at where Trumps gets his ideas:

crusader-kkk-trump.jpg
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That guy doesn't have the brain cells to come up with this kind of propaganda and make it a 'thing'. The dumb ass finds Reagan's years the best.

I'm not saying he isn't an arsehole, but this is Miller's doing, as well you know.

Biden, however, has been in politics for 47 years compared to 4 years.

It's a stupid game to play.
 
Just seen the latest Republican T.v ad, Clever editing of Fauci praising Trump for how he's handled this Pandemic when he did no such thing, he's blew his top over it too. How the fuck can they get away with shit like this, saying that they've been doing it for near on 4 years. Cùnts!
 
DrBlueBob said:
FFS. Last time I try to inject a bit of levity into the thread, until the next time time that is.

Watched the vid and concluded that Jimmy Dore is on helluva smug ****. Talking of up to date plagiarism, MAGA anyone?

I wasn't bothered when Trump nicked that straight from Reagan and I am not bothered that Biden nicked Build Back Better.

Again I see this as false equivalence and huge apologies to whomsoever it may offend that I nicked that term unashamedly.

What have full kit wankers got to do with anything and who says your view is worthless? From where I view things it seems that you keep howling about something that is mostly correct but at the same time as having a go at others for not hearing what you are saying you seem to go to extraordinairy lengths to point out why you and only you can see the bigger picture. Christ Bigga, it you fucking ages before you finally suggested that in fact Trump was worse than Biden, which was kind of the only point people were trying to make. How we got this point is to my eye reasonably obvious. Where we are going and how to get out of the mire is something that I suspect most right thinkers would love to know the answer to. Despite your telling anyone and everyone that they should listen to you all you have done is say that the Utopian (it doesn't actually exist btw way) option is the only one.

I'm sure everyone would be all ears but as you know if you have your words fall on deaf ears then you tend to repeat the same things but maybe in a different form and louder. Both sides of the fence are doing this at the moment but how would you propose things should be moving forward, and please don't say Sanders.

Also it is worth noting that whatever we think of Trump and for that matter Biden, it seems that many people don't really want huge change, it frightens people. In theory it's great to be progressive but if in practice it means you have to give something up such as pay higher taxes then it becomes easier to not "do the right thing"

It's all about compromise not digging one's heels in and saying either way is the only way.

Edit; I should clarify that those that resist change are probably doing ok. I suddenly realised that the disenfranchised who you are speaking on behalf of do want change and drastic change at that. What I meant was that there are huge swathes of middle ground voters who don't necessarily want wholesale differences to their way of life if it's quite cosy as it is.
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Firstly, everybody and their mates knows that 'MAGA' is not unique to this administration, so let's drop kick that out the window.

I point out that both, not vilifying one only, both are terrible people that did poorly in education and have lied their way to the top. I'm not sure why this doesn't bother people.

As a Black man, to hear someone LIE about being on civil rights marches irks me. No good can come from that. And then to build upon that a punishment for jailing an underclass for transgressions laid at their door by the previous government is unforgivable. Unless you're in my demographic, you can't understand why that cannot be dismissed.

Black people may vote, but they won't forget what happened there.

And, since, you're not going to understand something with the same parallel for you, it's easy to ignore. And that's just one aspect. An aspect that snowballs into mistrust for what politicians with agendas and that side with corporations over people really want.

You continue to play into the hands of neoliberalism.

Secondly, it's the top of the ticket that talk about 'job creators' needing less taxing, convincing the little people of such a lie and now everyone is on the case of the president when reality bites. Who, at the top of both parties, do not fall into the category of tax relief whilst telling the worker 'sorry, we can't give you enough of your money back to survive COVID!'. And this is whilst both parties agree to send public money to defence contractors to build bombs and blow that money up overseas.

This is why the phrase "not much difference" comes into play.

I ain't shouting down none of what you people have to say, but I will continue to point out my piece. I'm not part of this pathetic cabal and I'm glad.

I will always side with the little person. This election is about changing the figurehead only, but it's the problem underneath that won't get solved for years.

That's solved with fucking off neoliberalists, whether they are Democrat or Republican, to even the US ship.
 
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