25 man squad (merged)

[I remember the kippax]

OK, I've read and re-read these stupid bloody rules and this is the squad that conforms to the new Premier League rules -

GK

Given (Home Grown - ish, because he was 18 when he was transferred to Blackburn, so therefore I think he squeezes in with the 3 season rule, rather than the 36 month rule) - 1
Hart (Home Grown (HG - 1)) - 2
Taylor (HG - 2) - 3

Defence

Richards (HG - 3) - 4
Toure K (1) - 5
Lescott (HG - 4) - 6
Kompany (2) - 7
Boateng (3) - 8
Kolarov (4) - 9
Bridge (HG - 5) - 10
Zabaleta (5) - 11

Midfield

Johnson A (HG - 6) - 12
Silva (6) - 13
Toure Y (7) - 14
Barry (HG- 7) - 15
De Jong (8) - 16
Viera (9) - 17
Wright-Phillips (HG - 8) - 18
Ireland (HG - 9) - 19
Johnson M (HG - 10) - 20 (Could be replaced until Jan by Milner (HG - 10) - 20)

Attackers

Tevez (10) - 21
Adebayor (11) - 22
Bellamy (HG- 11) - 23
Robinho/Santa Cruz (12) - 24

Now this would leave 1 space for another OVER 21 player to sign if we keep one of Robinho or Santa Cruz or none at all. - Torres perhaps. If not, then we can keep both of them.

The rest of the squad are under 21, including Ballotelli - if we sign him & Caicedo, strangely enough. The key point about Ballotelli is that he doesn't have to be included in the 25 this season, but next season he would have to be included (but this would not be an issue as Viera only has a 1 year contract), as would Caicedo if we keep him.

So, if we assume we are going to say goodbye to the following:

Jo
Onouha
Etuho
Robinho/Santa Cruz (1 of)
Garrido
Gonzales (keeper)

Then we would have a squad of 24 nominated, leaving 1 place still to fill, but we would also have 11 Definite Home Grown Players, 12 Nominated players, 1 uncertainty (Given) and a gap to be filled by a new player of whatever nationality.

Plus a number of normal squad members, Nimely, Ballotelli, Weiss, Boyata & the other keeper that we don't have to nominate this season.

Simples!!!!

 

[lancs blue]

Boateng is over 21 so will have to be included in the 25.

It wouldn't matter if he was 20.

Under 21 players have to have been registered with the FA for three years.

No, that's for home-grown players. There is no specific rule that applies to U-21 players apart from their age as far as I can see.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.premierleague.com/staticFiles/db/52/0,,12306~152283,00.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.premierleague.com/staticFile ... 283,00.pdf</a>

 

[I remember the kippax]

It wouldn't matter if he was 20.

Under 21 players have to have been registered with the FA for three years.

No, that's for home-grown players. There is no specific rule that applies to U-21 players apart from their age as far as I can see.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.premierleague.com/staticFiles/db/52/0,,12306~152283,00.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.premierleague.com/staticFile ... 283,00.pdf</a>

Agreed, but next season we would have to include Vidal & Weiss in the squad as they have both turned 21 this year. The regulation says Under 21 on the 1 January 2010.

 

[macmanson]

The rest of the squad are under 21, including Ballotelli - if we sign him & Caicedo, strangely enough. The key point about Ballotelli is that he doesn't have to be included in the 25 this season, but next season he would have to be included (but this would not be an issue as Viera only has a 1 year contract), as would Caicedo if we keep him.

Although Caceido is 21, he is not an Under 21 as he was born in late 1988. The cutoff date for a player to be considered an Under 21 in the premier league is January 1st, 1989 or conversely you could say that the player needs to be under 21 years of age on January 1st, 2010. Caceido would have been 21 coming into this year in order to qualify.

I suspect that the actual breakdown of our squad would be as follows. We have 39 players counting recent signing Kolarov listed on the OS. They are:

Goalkeepers (5)

David Gonzales, Shay Given, Joe Hart, Gunnar Nielsen, Stuart Taylor

Defenders (13)

Dedryck Boyata, Greg Cunningham, Javan Vidal, Jerome Boateng, Joleon Lescott, Wayne Bridge, Javier Garrido, Shaleum Logan, Nedum Onuoha, Micah Richards, Kolo Toure, Pablo Zabaleta, Aleksandar Kolarov

Midfielders (13)

Abdisalam Ibrahim, Adam Johnson, David Silva, Gareth Barry, Patrick Vieira, Yaya Toure, Nigel de Jong, Kelvin Etuhu, Stephen Ireland, Michael Johnson, Vincent Kompany, Vladimir Weiss, Shaun Wright-Phillips,

Strikers (8)

Emmanuel Adebayor, Craig Bellamy, Felipe Caicedo, Jô, Alex Tchuimeni-Nimely, Robinho, Roque Santa Cruz, Carlos Tevez

There are 6 Under 21s in that 39.

Dedryck Boyata, Greg Cunningham, Abdisalam Ibrahim, Vladimir Weiss, Alex Tchuimeni-Nimely, Javan Vidal

That leaves 33 players of which 8 have to go.

Gunnar Nielsen is out on loan to Tranmere:

http://www.mcfc.co.uk/News/Team-news/2010/July/Gunnar-gets-new-deal-and-a-loan

So that knocks it down 32 players of which 7 have to go. Michael Johnson won't be registered for the 1st half of the season as he is not fit to play for the beginning of the season which takes it down to 31, of which 6 have to go.

However, Mancini is quoted in the following articles as saying they have 30 players and need to get down to 25 and that Robinho does not want to come back.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2010/0726/1224275468190.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/spo ... 68190.html</a>

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1297602/Why-Robinho-shown-door-Manchester-City-boss-Roberto-Mancini.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... ncini.html</a>

That would mean that since they consider Robinho a gonner, they only have 5 players left to clear out. The players that are likely to be sold or loaned to make up the 5 outgoing names are:

1 GK likely to be David Gonzales since they recently resigned Taylor

2 DFs Shaleum Logan, Javier Garrido

1 MF Kelvin Etuhu (could be serving a prison sentence anyway)

1 of 2 STs Felipe Caicedo or Jo

That leaves a 25 man roster of:

Goalkeepers (3)

Shay Given, Joe Hart, Stuart Taylor

Defenders (8)

Jerome Boateng, Joleon Lescott, Wayne Bridge, Nedum Onuoha, Micah Richards, Kolo Toure, Pablo Zabaleta, Aleksandar Kolarov

Midfielders (9)

Adam Johnson, David Silva, Gareth Barry, Patrick Vieira, Yaya Toure, Nigel de Jong, Stephen Ireland, Vincent Kompany, Shaun Wright-Phillips

Strikers (5)

Emmanuel Adebayor, Craig Bellamy, Roque Santa Cruz, Carlos Tevez, Caceido/Jo

Balotelli would be an under 21 so could be added to the squad as an under 21 for the premier league but would need to bump a player out of the team to be registered for Europa league play from what I gather.

If we were to sign Milner, then a player from the above 25 would have to be moved.

Same for each new successive signing. I don't think either Bellamy or Ireland will be moved on unless it is their choice to leave.<br /><br />-- Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:22 am --<br /><br />

So this has quotes...

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.goal.com/en/news/9/england/2010/07/26/2043020/manchester-city-manager-roberto-mancini-unsure-which-stars" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.goal.com/en/news/9/england/2 ... hich-stars</a>

Why is he even mentioning De Jong? I'm sorry but in what world would Vieira of 2010 be selected in a 25 man squad over World Cup 2010 finalist De Jong? I hope it's idle talk and he isn't actually considering leaving De Jong out of the 25.

"We are not sure whether it'll be [Craig] Bellamy, [Michael] Johnson, [Nigel] De Jong it is impossible now to know which players will be on the list."

I think this is just another case of Mancini being coy with the press and dropping names that have been brought up in the paper. His statement that is impossible to know which players will be on the list is a little far fetched. With 3 weeks to go, I would think we know all but maybe 3 or 4 of the players who'll be on that 25 man list at this point.

However, some big name signings in the next couple of weeks could push some players out if you check out my post in the thread about which 25 will make the squad.

 

[Bluemoonbaldboy]

I can finally get my head round all this but the one thing I do question is this "homegrown" ruling. The 6+5 rule was axed because it broke European law (freedom of movement). Surely the way this scheme is worded as it stands also falls foul of it as well as a european person has rights of residency and employment within and European Union Country meaning surely any european player should count in the homegrown count?

 

[I remember the kippax]

I can finally get my head round all this but the one thing I do question is this "homegrown" ruling. The 6+5 rule was axed because it broke European law (freedom of movement). Surely the way this scheme is worded as it stands also falls foul of it as well as a european person has rights of residency and employment within and European Union Country meaning surely any european player should count in the homegrown count?

It does, in fact any player from anywhere in the world counts - for example:

Fabregas is "Home Grown"
Weiss is "Home Grown"

the Rafael twins from the Rags, when they turn 21 if they are still there, are "Home Grown"

You have to have been a player in a Welsh or English club for 3 years, or 3 seasons, before the age of 21 - that defines Home Grown, not nationality

 

[kennycar]

well thats what it said, does anyone no the full rules

Full Rules:

In accordance with the new rules we must name a 25 man squad of players over 21 of which 8 must be home-grown.

“A home grown player is defined as one who, irrespective of his nationality or age, has been registered with any club affiliated to the Football Association or the Welsh Football Association for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons or 36 months prior to his 21st birthday (or the end of the season during which he turns 21).

“For the purposes of this rule, the season is deemed to run from the date the first transfer window closes until the final match of the campaign.

“In keeping with UEFA guidelines, an Under 21 player is defined as one who is under the age of 21 on 1st January in the year in which the season commences. For the 2010/11 campaign Under 21 players will have been born on or after 1st January 1989.

“The 25-man squads must be submitted to the Premier League by 5pm on the day following the close of each transfer window. For the 2010/11 season the first window will close at 6pm on 31st August and final squads must be registered by 5pm on 1st September. Before then Clubs will not be required to name their squads and may select their teams from any registered players.

“While the transfer windows are open, clubs may change their squads as many times as they want. However they will only be able to make alterations outside the windows if there are exceptional circumstances and the changes are approved by the Premier League board.

“For example, if a club has two out of three goalkeepers injured they may be permitted to bring in a replacement under the guidelines drawn up by a specially formed working party.

“Players in the 25-man squads who go out on loan to Football League clubs may not be replaced. However they may reclaim their place on their return.

“Clubs do not have to name a full squad of 25 if they do not have that many contracted players and in this instance they may add free agents outside the transfer window. However if they have 25 eligible contracted players, they must be named.

“Similarly, clubs do not have to name eight home grown players if they do not have that many but that would mean operating with a reduced squad.

“The system will be simple enough to administer. Clubs will register their players via an online form which automatically flags up if they have named too many players who do not qualify as Home-Grown.”

Here is our current list of players over 21. Home-grown players are in bold

1. Shay Given
2. Joe Hart
3. David Gonzalez
4. Joleon Lescott
5. Wayne Bridge
6. Javier Garrido
7. Shaleum Logan
8. Nedum Onuoha
9. Micah Richards
10. Kolo Toure
11. Pablo Zabaleta
12. Adam Johnson
13. Gareth Barry
14. Patrick Vieira
15. Nigel de Jong
16. Kelvin Etuhu
17. Stephen Ireland
18. Michael Johnson
19. Vincent Kompany
20. Shaun Wright-Phillips
21. Emmanuel Adebayor
22. Craig Bellamy
23. Jo
24. Robinho
25. Roque Santa-Cruz
26. Carlos Tevez
27. David Silva
28. Yaya Toure
29. Aleksandar Kolarov
30. Stuart Taylor
31. Felipe Caicedo
32. Jerome Boateng

That's 32 players over 21 of which 15 are home-grown.

Shay Given just qualifies as home-grown is classed as playing for 3 years at an English or Welsh club before your 21st birthday OR before the end of the season in which you turned 21. He joined Blackburn after he was 18 but he played for 3 seasons before the end of the season in which he turned 21.
I had to add Felipe Caicedo and Jerome Boateng after being told the correct rules regarding the definition of an under 21 player.

We need not name David Gonzalez in the squad because we are covered by the rule that allows you to draft in extra goalkeepers if two of three are injured.

 

[Bluemoonbaldboy]

It does, in fact any player from anywhere in the world counts - for example:

Fabregas is "Home Grown"
Weiss is "Home Grown"

the Rafael twins from the Rags, when they turn 21 if they are still there, are "Home Grown"

You have to have been a player in a Welsh or English club for 3 years, or 3 seasons, before the age of 21 - that defines Home Grown, not nationality

Yes I understand that but surely it is illegal under European law equal rights for all workers from any country within Europe etc...meaning for example if we signed a french lad aged 22 who spent his entire youth career in France he should count as homegrown it's the whole FA or FAW bit thats the issue.

 

[lancs blue]

It does, in fact any player from anywhere in the world counts - for example:

Fabregas is "Home Grown"
Weiss is "Home Grown"

the Rafael twins from the Rags, when they turn 21 if they are still there, are "Home Grown"

You have to have been a player in a Welsh or English club for 3 years, or 3 seasons, before the age of 21 - that defines Home Grown, not nationality

Yes I understand that but surely it is illegal under European law equal rights for all workers from any country within Europe etc...meaning for example if we signed a french lad aged 22 who spent his entire youth career in France he should count as homegrown it's the whole FA or FAW bit thats the issue.

The rule is not really any different to the UEFA rule for the 25 man squads and that has been cleared by the EU.

 

[johnny crossan]

well thats what it said, does anyone no the full rules

Full Rules:

In accordance with the new rules we must name a 25 man squad of players over 21 of which 8 must be home-grown.

“A home grown player is defined as one who, irrespective of his nationality or age, has been registered with any club affiliated to the Football Association or the Welsh Football Association for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons or 36 months prior to his 21st birthday (or the end of the season during which he turns 21).

“For the purposes of this rule, the season is deemed to run from the date the first transfer window closes until the final match of the campaign.

This means Shay Given is is Association Trained - I've been wrong for weeks - apologies to all I have maligned. Whether the PL are following the UEFA definitions for U21s (as they say they are apart from the club-trained restriction) is a matter of debate - I've written to the Prem League for clarification about Balotelli and I'll post their reply if I ever get one.