31 | Ederson - 2022/23 Performances

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RayCTID said:
Ortega isn't any better to honest either. The Southampton performance has put me off giving him the starting spot. As far as Ederson improving on "basics" that is down to the two Goalkeeping coaches as well and they aren't doing a bad job. And if he was really bad with the basic part of goalkeeping he wouldn't be a professional never mind playing for City.
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You mention the Southampton performance, fairly, as a negative. But what about the Chelsea performance? That one was everything we could want.

And how many of Edersons performances this year are closer to Southampton than Chelsea?
 
The problem we've had for about ten years is that none of our goalkeepers actually improve on their weaknesses and I don't know why.

Ortega is a better shot stopper than Ederson. His agility, reflexes and his body shape on one-on-ones are certainly better anyway.

Eddie has horrible form when it comes to blocking close range shots. Compare his technique to Ortega's and they're night and day.

That, to me, comes from coaching and repetition in training and I don't understand why something so blatant hasn't been drilled out of him.

I've always been a big Ederson fan and I absolutely still am but he has his weaknesses and they're not being improved upon.
 
No keeper in the world saves that goal from Forest and other than that they didn't have a single shot otherwise. So how exactly is Ederson supposed to increase his "save percentage".

If we had Courtois in goal on Saturday, we concede that goal anyway, his stats show 1 shot on target = 1 goal. Would we be calling to kick him out as well?

Last week Arsenal didn't have a single shot on target after the penalty, again, how can his stats increase if he doesn't face anything to save?
 
mattcity5 said:
You mention the Southampton performance, fairly, as a negative. But what about the Chelsea performance? That one was everything we could want.

And how many of Edersons performances this year are closer to Southampton than Chelsea?
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About the same or more for Ederson as we have a few wins under our belt this season
 
I dont think Ederson is our main problem, the rank defending is way more problematic for me. I hate how easy we are to get at. Chopping, changing, general fucking about at the back has done us no favours this season. Some of it has been forced through injuries granted, but not all of it.
 
city warrior said:
People here defend a mediocre shot-stopper so much. And their only argument are two: he receives shots that are too difficult and we need him for distribution.

Our style was exactly the same with Ortega and we faced Chelsea and Arsenal, 2 elite teams. Also please anyone show me an Ederson performance that is better than Ortega's against Chelsea. 2 things we can do: eye test and stats.

Eye test: you go to any GK highlights and Ederson is by far the most mediocre. Even average keepers have much better highlights than Ederson. Really, the people that defend him so much should go and check the highlights of Cortouis, Ter Stegen or Neuer to see what a truly elite GK is capable.

Objective stats: you cannot compare save% between Ederson and Palace GK. But you can do it between Ederson and teams that play similar to us(leaves the GK exposed to more difficult shots and 1v1). I am gonna take Barcelona this year and with Luis Enrique, Napoli this year, Arsenal this year, Bayern this year with Flick and with Pep, Real Madrid with Ancelotti (this is not as similar as us, but very few teams play like us) and Liverpool 18-22(different to us but very offensive team too) and PSG (they are so superior in Ligue 1 that I imagine they dominate every match and play very offensively), Ajax with Ten Hag AND Pep's Barca. I will use fbref.

Barca Ter Stegen: average 79% with Luis Enrique. This year 89%

Napoli Meret: 76.3%

Arsenal Rammsdale: 71.6%

Bayern Neuer: average 81% with Pep. 74.5 with Flick and 79.5 this season.

Madrid Curtouis: average 80% last 3 years.

Alisson: average 75% over those 4 years. Even this year where his team sucks, he is still with 72%

PSG Donnaruma: average 75% over 2 seasons there

Ajax Onana: average 76% over the 3 seasons with Ten Hag.

Barca Victor Valdes: 76.35% over 4 seasons with Pep

Ederson: this season he is at 62%, last at 69% and he only has one season over 75%.

I wonder what's gomma be the excuse now? Please bribg arguments other than: He faces shots that no one would stop due to the way we play, when I just showed you stats from Valdes and Neuer when Pep was there.
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Here you go mate. Statistically, over the past 5 seasons, there’s very little difference between any of them from a shot stopping or passing perspective

https://fbref.com/tiny/S9COi

You wonder why City fans will stick up for one of their own & defend a player who has won numerous titles & cups whilst playing?

I wonder why a supposed City supporter can’t support one of our own & why they would use stats from half a season to slag him off, a season where the whole team’s performances have dropped, instead of using a reasonable data range of say, 5 years?

If you’re saying his form has dropped, I don’t think anyone would disagree, if you’re saying he’s shit & always has been, you need to go take your head for a wobble mate
 
I love Eddie but there's no doubt his shot stopping isn't great. Would take Hart in a one-on-one all day long, and I never really hold out any hope with penalties. I don't think there's anyone better on his feet though, and distribution is always superb.
 
Bozo said:
I love Eddie but there's no doubt his shot stopping isn't great. Would take Hart in a one-on-one all day long, and I never really hold out any hope with penalties. I don't think there's anyone better on his feet though, and distribution is always superb.
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if it was only the shot stopping.. decision making and positioning are very questionable also. wouldnt mind giving ortega a run of games but it won't happen. we are not in a great mental state at the moment anywhere on the pitch. need to be ruthless again.
 
merz said:
if it was only the shot stopping.. decision making and positioning are very questionable also. wouldnt mind giving ortega a run of games but it won't happen. we are not in a great mental state at the moment anywhere on the pitch. need to be ruthless again.
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Id add influence/leadership too.

He doesn't seem very vocal or authoritative and just looks a bit too casual in his demeanour.I'm not convinced he instills confidence in the defence,although in fairness the constant tinkering will hardly help with that.
 
Maly said:
Here you go mate. Statistically, over the past 5 seasons, there’s very little difference between any of them from a shot stopping or passing perspective

https://fbref.com/tiny/S9COi

You wonder why City fans will stick up for one of their own & defend a player who has won numerous titles & cups whilst playing?

I wonder why a supposed City supporter can’t support one of our own & why they would use stats from half a season to slag him off, a season where the whole team’s performances have dropped, instead of using a reasonable data range of say, 5 years?

If you’re saying his form has dropped, I don’t think anyone would disagree, if you’re saying he’s shit & always has been, you need to go take your head for a wobble mate
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What a player did 4 years ago is meaningless in the present or you would have Silva starting in our team still. What matters is form. Half the season is more than 30 games, if after 30 games Ederson is in bottom 20% of GK in Europe, then supporting him starting is not supporting the club. Sterling had horrendous year and a half, and I guess you would say support him instead of selling him right? Ederson is just the same. I didn't talk about 4 years ago (although the big stat is xG saved, not %save, and again you can see Ederson is the worst of the bunch.

If you include last season (is the last 100 matches significant to you and still to small of a sample), he is the worst by a significant amount in saves, xG conceded and any statistic that matters. Last season he is in the bottom half of Europe, while Curtouis, Donnaruma Alisson are all in top 10% again. Even Ederson at his best has never ever been close to being an elite shot-stopper. And actually his passing this year (including both short, medium and long range) is similar and even inferior to Neuer and Ter Stegen for example.

Once a player is on the field you support them, and if they are in a bad patch, you support them still, but you expect them to be in the bench and give them some opportunities to regain form (like Mahrez starting this season). Just answer me this, what needs to happen for Ederson to be benched? Or are you gonna suppport him startig even if he continue being in the bottom 20% of Europe?
 
moomba said:
Shouldn't we apply the same standards when more often than not the goals conceded are down to a total meltdown in defence leaving the opposition with an easy shot.
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That's why you have the stat xG (not perfect but it's te closest) that considers how hard a shot is. Ederson is in the bottom 20% of Europe this season and in the bottom 40% last season of the 5 big European leagues.
 
city warrior said:
That's why you have the stat xG (not perfect but it's te closest) that considers how hard a shot is. Ederson is in the bottom 20% of Europe this season and in the bottom 40% last season of the 5 big European leagues.
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Like you said, not perfect, although I'd listen to that argument before I'd bother with the 1 shot, 1 goal nonsense.

We're not a side that allows lots of low percentage shots.he also plays that sweeper role very well (albeit with a couple of noticeable exceptions) which for mecan be just as important than saving a shot from distance.
 
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