#47 | Phil Foden - 2021/22 Performances

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I know this is getting way off topic, but you can only judge players of the past if you imagine they had been born later and had the benefits of a modern life style, the academies and coaching. Is anyone seriously suggesting that a 24 or 25 year old Colin Bell wouldn't be the first name in the England midfield, if he had been born later? Instead of Rice, Philips or Mount. Take a game where skill is important, like test cricket, the England team of 15 years ago would batter the current England team. The Australian team of 20 years ago batter the current Australian team. And the West Indies team of 40 years ago would batter the current West Indies team. Fitness and life style can be taught, skill and ability can't.
 
WallyA said:
Him dropping deep as a F9 means our wingers have space to run into. We saw Grealish and Mahrez inside over and over again. And Foden has the passing to find them and spaces in general.

It let's him learn the midfield role while also letting him be up top and play as a forward. Perfect position to force a player to improve in because it's so damn hard, that's why Foden looked weird there at the beginning last year but is now maybe our best F9 option.
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Rubbish.
" it's let him learn the midfield role"
Phil Foden is a Midfield player.played there all his life.
Because of his outrageous footballing talent,Pep has been able to fit him in anywhere.to suit the team.
 
MagicMerlin said:
He gets better every single week and he looked at home in that false 9 position today. Don’t think he’s been at his best when he’s played there in the past but he looks like he’s starting to master it now. Knew when to drop deep and link up with the midfield, had loads of the ball and nearly got in behind and through on goal a couple of times.

Think he’ll be even better there when we put a runner alongside him in attack instead of both Grealish & Mahrez. Jesus obviously the go to at the moment but 17/18 Sterling would be the perfect option if that player still exists, sadly my hopes are fading by the week.

Anyway I think that false 9 position is Foden’s for the season now and as soon as he starts scoring there I reckon there’s a chance he won’t stop. Reminds me of a little Argentinian fella that started excelling there for Pep at a similar age ;). I’m probably getting ahead of myself. He’s so special though and he’s probably our best player in about 3 different positions at the moment. Wherever he plays he’ll stand out cos he’s fucking magic our Phil.
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Stop limiting your perception of Foden as a false9.
Your brain isn't working how Peps brain works
Pep will select Foden in any number of positions,
Keep the opponent thinking.
Never stay the same...
Why would you?
The job is to win each match.you don't want the opponent to know what's going to happen...
 
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dennishasdoneit said:
Stop limiting your perception of Foden as a false9.
Your brain isn't working how Peps brain works
Pep will select Foden in any number of positions,
Keep the opponent thinking.
Never stay the same...
Why would you?
The job is to win each match.you don't want the opponent to know what's going to happen...am I going to far here?
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Not just Foden though, everyone in front line is always change their position in Pep formation. Maybe that's what in always Pep in mind? To not always start player in their preffered position even it was suit them the best? To keep opponent guessing and makes us hard to predict?

That is why he such demanding coach, always expecting his player to master multiple position on the pitch.
 
twosips said:
Which bit do you disagree with then?
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Beckham - Congratulations. You bought into the hype.

Brentford 2021 beating Brazil 1970...? - Check your medication.

There's a lot more presumptuous nonsense in what you say. Suffice to say, I doubt that many of today's lightweight overindulged mamby pambies would last more than 10 minutes if they played in the famous 'ballet on ice'.

I've got no more words.
 
The Stockport Iniesta said:
I know this is getting way off topic, but you can only judge players of the past if you imagine they had been born later and had the benefits of a modern life style, the academies and coaching. Is anyone seriously suggesting that a 24 or 25 year old Colin Bell wouldn't be the first name in the England midfield, if he had been born later? Instead of Rice, Philips or Mount. Take a game where skill is important, like test cricket, the England team of 15 years ago would batter the current England team. The Australian team of 20 years ago batter the current Australian team. And the West Indies team of 40 years ago would batter the current West Indies team. Fitness and life style can be taught, skill and ability can't.
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you don't seem to understand the point. the point is not Colin Bell wouldn't be the first name in the England midfield, he probably would be. the point was that the players theses days like foden, berardo look less entertaining because of the defense these days and not because they can't. if you teleport the modern day foden into the older game he will look as entertaining as those older players.
 
Gundog’s Gundog said:
You and Tugay make some good points that I agree with but I think there are a few important factors here that haven’t been mentioned. Firstly the English top flight is no longer just comprised of the best players in Britain they are cherry picked from around the world so the standard is naturally higher than it was when foreign players were few and far between so in that sense we’re not really comparing like with like

Secondly whilst physically players have improved immensely since the 70s / 80s the playing area is still the same size which naturally favours those trying to stifle creative play. Having better conditioned athletes covering the same amount of space inevitably leads to fewer instances of bad play / desperate tackles etc etc caused by fatigue but it doesn’t necessarily mean that as pure footballers the standard is so much higher than it used to be as Tugay suggests.

Thirdly and perhaps most pertinently for this discussion I think mavericks are almost coached out of the game these days - the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow is so shiny and the coaching framework so organised from such a young age that kids who may have grown up to be Gazza etc etc knuckle down and learn the tactical side of the game and work intensely on their conditioning possibly at the expense of developing their artistry.
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all your point seems to suggest that defending has improved so you actually agree with him. also the point about coaching if you think about why coaches ask players to do less fancy stuff, its because it is not effective against modern defenses while in the older days the fancy stuff was greatly effective against those defenses.
 
My son the other night summed up Phil‘s ability. He said that he was like a Swiss army knife of a footballer, he can do anything on a football field. If you put in the team at full back he would still be the best player on the pitch.
 
The Stockport Iniesta said:
I know this is getting way off topic, but you can only judge players of the past if you imagine they had been born later and had the benefits of a modern life style, the academies and coaching. Is anyone seriously suggesting that a 24 or 25 year old Colin Bell wouldn't be the first name in the England midfield, if he had been born later? Instead of Rice, Philips or Mount. Take a game where skill is important, like test cricket, the England team of 15 years ago would batter the current England team. The Australian team of 20 years ago batter the current Australian team. And the West Indies team of 40 years ago would batter the current West Indies team. Fitness and life style can be taught, skill and ability can't.
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Don’t understand why anyone would compare Foden with Colin Bell, if any of players should be compared to Bell it‘s be KDB.
 
Agueroooo9320 said:
you don't seem to understand the point. the point is not Colin Bell wouldn't be the first name in the England midfield, he probably would be. the point was that the players theses days like foden, berardo look less entertaining because of the defense these days and not because they can't. if you teleport the modern day foden into the older game he will look as entertaining as those older players.
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Do they look less entertaning? On blob these players are the most entertaining football team this club as ever had.
 
eastmanc said:
Do they look less entertaning? On blob these players are the most entertaining football team this club as ever had.
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oh i agree as a team we are up there with the best in entertainment factor. but i can also understand why the older ones loved watching individual attackers skip past defenses with ease during those times.
 
twosips said:
I would politely disagree. I may not be your age, but I've seen plenty of the first two at least. Best was often up against players that would be lucky to be league one in terms of quality right now. Drop him in the game now and he'd be shocked by the pace of it. Maybe he would get up to speed eventually, but there's no guarantee. Played on a crap pitch or not, most of those players were heavy smokers and drinkers. Sports science wasn't a thing, they didn't train or practice with anywhere near the same intensity. Of course they wouldn't be up to the same level as today's game where you have to do everything better, quicker and more precisely. Brentford would probably beat the Brazil 1970 team IMO. The game is *vastly* better now. I'm not saying it's more entertaining, but the overall average technical ability, the fitness, the organisation etc is world's apart from even 20 years ago.

EDIT - this Best video just proves my point. The standard of defending is fucking dreadful. Genuinely amateurish at times. All throwing themselves in, all look so unsharp and lacking physicality. There is zero discipline. You couldn't do that today. They're just too strong, too organised, too fast.

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To be fair, that video really does prove your entire point. The defending is an utter joke, bordering on comedy. Some of it is so bad it looks staged. Drop a shoulder or chop onto your other foot and half the team slide to ground, it’s laughable. Against that same standard, where defenders sell themselves on every change of direction, with no ability to recover, even the likes of Mahrez would make a mockery of them to the levels Best is showing there, or even beyond. It’s like when you play 5 a side as a kid and the guy that is on trial at City/Utd shows up and runs past everyone for fun, because we’re all unfit and have no clue how to defend.
 
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Tricky_Trev said:
To be fair, that video really does prove your entire point. The defending is an utter joke, bordering on comedy. Some of it is so bad it looks staged. Drop a shoulder or chop onto your other foot and half the team slide to ground, it’s laughable. Against that same standard, where defenders sell themselves on every change of direction, with no ability to recover, even the likes of Mahrez would make a mockery of them to the levels Best is showing there, or even beyond. It’s like when you play 5 a side as a kid and the guy that is on trial at City/Utd shows up and runs past everyone for fun, because we’re all unfit and have no clue how to defend.
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The defending at 2 mins was the kicker for me out on the wing. When he turns inside at 2.04...what the flying fuck was that? Genuinely looks like me when im knackered 20 minutes in at 5 aside. Not even trying. You'd be laughed out of the stadium now as a PL defender if you did that. Literally none of them harry him. It's bizarre.
 
twosips said:
The defending at 2 mins was the kicker for me out on the wing. When he turns inside at 2.04...what the flying fuck was that? Genuinely looks like me when im knackered 20 minutes in at 5 aside. Not even trying. You'd be laughed out of the stadium now as a PL defender if you did that. Literally none of them harry him. It's bizarre.
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Teams nowadays would literally rack up double figures against that. Imagine them against 90 mins of Pep-ball. High intensity pressing, high line, Kyle Walker mopping up, built like an Olympic sprinter, they’d be swatted aside. Different game.
 
eastmanc said:
My son the other night summed up Phil‘s ability. He said that he was like a Swiss army knife of a footballer, he can do anything on a football field. If you put in the team at full back he would still be the best player on the pitch.
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Phil as full back is decent idea, probably not going to be able to beat Zinchenko though and many other.
 
kun said:
Let's play Laporte up front and de Bruyne in goal too.

It isn't a decent idea. Maybe in an emergency, but even then - just no.
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It's Pep we are talking about here, i thought he was mad when he put Zinny on LB position too but look how it turn out now. I'm just saying there's posibility he can be decent in here, if Pep thinks he can do it.
 
Kamaro011 said:
It's Pep we are talking about here, i thought he was mad when he put Zinny on LB position too but look how it turn out now. I'm just saying there's posibility he can be decent in here, if Pep thinks he can do it.
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You don't put the best player in the team in at full back.
My head hurts.
 
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