737-8 max plane goes down (2018) - new not Max crash Indonesia

denislawsbackheel said:
Jet2 own none of the MAX series of 737s.
They bought a large number of the previous version not so long ago.
Easyjet have none, their entire fleet is Airbus.
Tui have several.
Ryanair’s entire fleet is nearly 737MAXs.
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Flew on Ryanair twice in the last 4 days. Both times it was 737-800 aircraft not 737 MAX aircraft which have different suffixes.
 
bluethrunthru said:
thing is this keeps happening to their aircraft - this is an older one so more a maintenance issue but there is something off with their product

www.bbc.co.uk

Boeing plane engine cover falls off prompting investigation

The Southwest Airlines flight had to return to Denver International airport shortly after taking off.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
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A BA Airbus A320 had an engine problem and the pilots had to shut it down inflight over the weekend. An Airbus A380 had a flap problem in Dubai yesterday. You won't hear about these issues because they aren't reported in the news so the perception is that there are only problems with Boeing aircraft, especially the 737 which is focused on by the media.

This is a good website www.avherald.com which reports upon most incidents whether minor or not. There isn't really any correlation between incidents, manufacturer or aircraft type. The only common severe issue that has occurred with the 737MAX is what caused the two crashes in 2018/19 however everybody is well aware of that.

Boeing has to answer for any criminal or negligent behaviour related to those crashes and they will probably never ever make a profit on the 737MAX because of the fines and costs involved. This however doesn't mean that every aircraft they build is unsafe, the statistics just don't support that argument.
 
inbetween said:
A BA Airbus A320 had an engine problem and the pilots had to shut it down inflight over the weekend. An Airbus A380 had a flap problem in Dubai yesterday. You won't hear about these issues because they aren't reported in the news so the perception is that there are only problems with Boeing aircraft, especially the 737 which is focused on by the media.

This is a good website www.avherald.com which reports upon most incidents whether minor or not. There isn't really any correlation between incidents, manufacturer or aircraft type. The only common severe issue that has occurred with the 737MAX is what caused the two crashes in 2018/19 however everybody is well aware of that.

Boeing has to answer for any criminal or negligent behaviour related to those crashes and they will probably never ever make a profit on the 737MAX because of the fines and costs involved. This however doesn't mean that every aircraft they build is unsafe, the statistics just don't support that argument.
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The main issue with the 737 is that the airframe is essentially 60 years old, this has a limiting factor on and major upgrades. I know all the avionics are the latest versions and may pilots like to "fly" the aircraft but there must be a limit to what is achievable regarding upgrades/improvements.
 
west didsblue said:
Flew on Ryanair twice in the last 4 days. Both times it was 737-800 aircraft not 737 MAX aircraft which have different suffixes.
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Do you understand the word nearly?
Furthermore in their typical underhand way Ryanair had MAX taken off the nose and the plane repainted the 737-200
 
inbetween said:
A BA Airbus A320 had an engine problem and the pilots had to shut it down inflight over the weekend. An Airbus A380 had a flap problem in Dubai yesterday. You won't hear about these issues because they aren't reported in the news so the perception is that there are only problems with Boeing aircraft, especially the 737 which is focused on by the media.

This is a good website www.avherald.com which reports upon most incidents whether minor or not. There isn't really any correlation between incidents, manufacturer or aircraft type. The only common severe issue that has occurred with the 737MAX is what caused the two crashes in 2018/19 however everybody is well aware of that.

Boeing has to answer for any criminal or negligent behaviour related to those crashes and they will probably never ever make a profit on the 737MAX because of the fines and costs involved. This however doesn't mean that every aircraft they build is unsafe, the statistics just don't support that argument.
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787 lithium batteries problems say hi.
 
denislawsbackheel said:
Do you understand the word nearly?
Furthermore in their typical underhand way Ryanair had MAX taken off the nose and the plane repainted the 737-200
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Yes I do, and a simple check of their fleet shows that as of 8 months ago they had 136 737 MAX aircraft comprising around 23% of their fleet with the vast majority of the rest being 737-800 aircraft which are the pre-MAX variant.
 
RadcliffeRick said:
The main issue with the 737 is that the airframe is essentially 60 years old, this has a limiting factor on and major upgrades. I know all the avionics are the latest versions and may pilots like to "fly" the aircraft but there must be a limit to what is achievable regarding upgrades/improvements.
Click to expand...
A limiting factor on what though? The 737 is meant to be cheap and cheerful where any gains are always going to be pretty small and certainly invisible to passengers. The big buyers such as Ryanair and Southwest are very cost sensitive, they just want low costs above all else and new designs always represent higher costs, at least initially. The 737MAX has actually sold very well specifically because it is a reused design.

Newer designs are also a bit of a risk because the long term costs are mostly unknown. Manufacturers may use new and lighter materials such as carbon fibre for example which sounds great. This isn't great though when it turns out that repairing those materials costs a lot because they're more complicated.

Airbus are no different to Boeing anyway, they recently re-engined and rehashed their A320 and A330 which are both 40 year old designs. The only new aircraft that Airbus has built recently is the A350 and that only came to exist because their 4-engine programmes (A340 & A380) never sold well and were eventually killed off. Without the A350 Airbus would of had a gigantic hole in their assembly lines.
 
East Level 2 said:
More problems on a Boeing 737-800

www.bbc.co.uk

Boeing plane engine cover falls off prompting investigation

The Southwest Airlines flight had to return to Denver International airport shortly after taking off.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
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You do know Boeing doesn’t make the engines, right?

The cowling has multiple latches on it. If they’re not all latched correctly, then the build up of air pressure that can get under the cowling can rip it off…just like any other panel traveling so fast through the air.

I would venture a latch was left open (or false latched, more likely) and that’s what happened.

No-one was injured and it was a virtual non-event!

Additionally, it was an older 737NG-800 model from 2016, not the MAX, which has been the model giving everyone such concern.
 
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inbetween said:
A limiting factor on what though? The 737 is meant to be cheap and cheerful where any gains are always going to be pretty small and certainly invisible to passengers. The big buyers such as Ryanair and Southwest are very cost sensitive, they just want low costs above all else and new designs always represent higher costs, at least initially. The 737MAX has actually sold very well specifically because it is a reused design.

Newer designs are also a bit of a risk because the long term costs are mostly unknown. Manufacturers may use new and lighter materials such as carbon fibre for example which sounds great. This isn't great though when it turns out that repairing those materials costs a lot because they're more complicated.

Airbus are no different to Boeing anyway, they recently re-engined and rehashed their A320 and A330 which are both 40 year old designs. The only new aircraft that Airbus has built recently is the A350 and that only came to exist because their 4-engine programmes (A340 & A380) never sold well and were eventually killed off. Without the A350 Airbus would have had a gigantic hole in their assembly lines.
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(Not directed at you, @inbetween but just spring boarding off your post.)

Two A321neo engines blew up recently, but no-one seems to know or care, so no biggie, eh?!
 
Johnny Mars Bar said:
I’d rather get a bus through Liverpool town centre with the City badge plastered all over it then get on a Boeing aircraft.

I know the odds are still tiny on something going wrong but there’s clearly something going deeply wrong at Boeing.
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Never get the argument that some people choose not to get on certain airliners/aircraft, but will happily jump in car and drive every day. Flying is the most safest mode of transport.


1,766 people were killed on our roads last year.

www.brake.org.uk

UK collision and casualty statistics | Brake

Find out more about people killed or hurt on roads
www.brake.org.uk www.brake.org.uk

Something deeply wrong with some of our driving standards.
 
BlueMonkey79 said:
1,766 people were killed on our roads last year.

www.brake.org.uk

UK collision and casualty statistics | Brake

Find out more about people killed or hurt on roads
www.brake.org.uk www.brake.org.uk

Something deeply wrong with some of our driving standards.
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I’ve said for years that people should have to retake their test every 10 years, and every 5 years once they hit 60.

So many FOCs out there who passed their test on a horse and cart before traffic lights were invented and are now whizzing round not knowing what day it is through a cataract haze, paying about 50 quid a year for insurance.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
The trip TO the airport is more dangerous than your flight!
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I know that it statistically is but my perception is somehow different. I haven't been on a plane for probably about 10 years now and hope I never have to again. I know it's not rational but it's just the way I feel. I only travel abroad by train these days, which is probably statistically more dangerous but doesn't feel that way.

Flying for me is absolute torture and the only way I can just about manage it is by flying first class on one of those planes that have separate compartments, so at least my tension doesn't affect others.
 
KnaresboroughBlue said:
I know that it statistically is but my perception is somehow different. I haven't been on a plane for probably about 10 years now and hope I never have to again. I know it's not rational but it's just the way I feel. I only travel abroad by train these days, which is probably statistically more dangerous but doesn't feel that way.

Flying for me is absolute torture and the only way I can just about manage it is by flying first class on one of those planes that have separate compartments, so at least my tension doesn't affect others.
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As you can see from the OP, the teething problems on the MAX were a self-created black eye for Boeing, no question, but it was 8 years ago and everyone understands the issue now.

That said, you have to make yourself happy and if that means trains, that is your choice to make.

I respect your freedom to choose, even though you readily acknowledge your irrational fear. I like trains, too, as long as it’s a quiet cabin!
 
Johnny Mars Bar said:
I’ve said for years that people should have to retake their test every 10 years, and every 5 years once they hit 60.

So many FOCs out there who passed their test on a horse and cart before traffic lights were invented and are now whizzing round not knowing what day it is through a cataract haze, paying about 50 quid a year for insurance.
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If they were causing the accidents, they’d be paying through the nose, old or not!
 
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