A new website about City's history

[Prestwich_Blue]

Prestwich,

Dreyfus was actually the leader of the Manchester Zionist movement, which was probably the most powerful Zionist group of the time. He also employed a chemist at the Clayton Aniline called Chaim Weizmann, who later became the first President of Israel.

The only question is that I don't believe Charles and Louis were brothers. They were certainly related and I think there was a Charles among Louis' 8 siblings but it wasn't the same one.<br /><br />-- Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:10 pm --<br /><br />

That really is astonishingly good. Balfour's election agent working where the new training ground is going to be, Allisons ruffling feathers in the 1880's to the 1980's, booze and the punt funding the early years. I've read gary's books but you cant get enough of this stuff. Cant wait for the next instalment. Great work

Winston Churchill was also a local MP at the time (Oldham East) and certainly knew Dreyfus & Weizmann so I believe it's likely he visited the factory as well.

 

[MCFChistory]

You're right. Just checked my notes and Charles was indeed a distant relation of Alfred. I've now amended the article.

Right, now I really have to get back to work.

 

[Gary James]

Yes, I'd love to have a more detailed chat with you about City's early years. I'm going to be running a piece about the Maltese Cross design on Gorton's shirts next week and will be putting forward a new theory for its origins. So I'd be fascinated to hear your thoughts.


Many thanks to everyone for their kind words. I've got to go and write tomorrow's piece now but will be back later.

There are quite a few theories on the white cross - have you spoken with the Masonic library?

Does your theory consider Elice Hopkins White Cross Army/League/Society founded in 1883?

Also, there was the black cross included on Earlstown's shirts that same season (basically a negative image of Gorton's kit).

The key thing with the white cross is William Beastow's involvement. His links are what makes the symbol most significant.

 

[Sigh]

I used to read your other site mate, enjoyed it; enjoyed this effort as well.

"Years of newspaper archives remain unread and important clues - such as personal papers and diaries, and old artefacts - are waiting to be discovered."

lol - you little tinker. You know there's folks sitting out here on edge of their setas don't you?

 

[MCFChistory]

Yes, I'd love to have a more detailed chat with you about City's early years. I'm going to be running a piece about the Maltese Cross design on Gorton's shirts next week and will be putting forward a new theory for its origins. So I'd be fascinated to hear your thoughts.


Many thanks to everyone for their kind words. I've got to go and write tomorrow's piece now but will be back later.

There are quite a few theories on the white cross - have you spoken with the Masonic library?

Does your theory consider Elice Hopkins White Cross Army/League/Society founded in 1883?

Also, there was the black cross included on Earlstown's shirts that same season (basically a negative image of Gorton's kit).

The key thing with the white cross is William Beastow's involvement. His links are what makes the symbol most significant.

My starting point was to look at where else that symbol would have been in use. I've been surprised at how recognisable it would have been back then (I've found a picture of a Manchester ginger beer bottle from that period with a virtually identical cross). I doubt we'll ever be sure about its origins but for me that fact that Earlestown also used it is significant, particularly because Earlestown and Gorton were both centres of the iron industry.

From memory the Elice Hopkins theory is from Those Feet and the author didn't put forward any supporting evidence.

Sigh,
Actually, my main reason for writing that was to point out how much legwork remains to be done (going through newspaper archives is a horribly time-consuming job).

One of the aims of my site is to encourage fans to get actively involved in researching City's history.

 

[Berkovic_blue]

Just had a quick look at the site, very interesting and the Golden Penny article is fascinating, I love that kind of stuff.

Bookmarked for further reading, thanks for putting it together

 

[Ducado]

Very good and very well written if I may say so, I hope you keep it going, well done

 

[bluemanc]

Ebay can be an amazing place for historical research

I look at auction houses,amazing what stuff comes up.
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.bonhams.com/Put" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.bonhams.com/Put</a> in Manchester City FC in the drop down list put in lots in past auctions.

Lot No: 456

1894 Ardwick F.C.(Manchester City) gold pocket watch, chain and two winners medals presented to Joseph Whittle
LLOYD, PAYNE & AMIEL: a gold Hunter chronograph, the white enamel dial having black Roman numerals, gold spade hands and a blued steel chronograph hand, the watch numbered 120766, Engraved inside 'Presented to Joseph Whittle (DANNY) by a member of his ADMIRERS and in recognition of his consistency as a Player of the late Ardwick Football Club Dec. 24th 1894', hallmarked, 18ct gold. Attached to a rose gold t-bar 9ct chain 37mm in length, with winder key and two 9ct gold medals, one to the obverse with shield design and 'M.D. SENIOR F.A. 1891', the reverse engraved 'WINNERS ARDWICK F.C. 1890 1891 J.WHITTLE' and the other to obverse with '1892 M.D.F.A. SENIOR' and enamel badge in similar design to the later Manchester City badge, the reverse engraved 'WINNERS ARDWICK F.C. 1891-1892 J.WHITTLE'. The lot includes a copy of the poem written by C.Hardcastle for the presentation of the watch. Watch diameter 55mm.

Loads more but what intrigued me about that were the diagonal lines on the badges that are on the 2 medals,i see more than the 3 great Manchester rivers on that unless it's just an oversight.
Great site btw,we should never be allowed to forget our History.

 

[MCFChistory]

That's a great find.

Wonder if the club managed to acquire it as I know they've been making efforts to buy old memorabilia.

 

[bluemanc]

That's a great find.

Wonder if the club managed to acquire it as I know they've been making efforts to buy old memorabilia.

That's interesting to know,loads of stuff comes up from the 1800's including letters & books i hope we did get them.

Manchester City Medal 1898-9
Second Division League Winners' medal, awarded to Wm. Smith. Engraved to the reverse, "Champions 2nd Division 1898-9" "Winners Healey Cup 1897-8 – 1898-9. Wm Smith". Manchester City Shield in enamel and gold to the obverse, 9ct gold 4.3cm x 3cm, ring suspension with bar.

Offered with two additional medals won by William Smith: Manchester and District F.A. Junior Cup 1903-4, awarded to "Wm Smith of Berry`s F.C." 9ct gold set in white metal, ring suspension 3.8cm x 2.3cm; Manchester and District Parks Bowling Association medal, awarded to Wm Smith of Queens Park 1923, 9ct gold, ring suspension 3.5cm x 2.8cm.


Sold for £1,939 inclusive of Buyer's Premium

Footnote:
There were two "William Smiths" playing at this time, we believe this medal belonged to
William "Stockport" Smith who was a forward between 1897-1900.

He made his debut v Gainsborough Trinity (h) 1.9.1897

He was joint top scorer with Billy Meredith with twelve goals, but only scored eight of the 92 goals notched the following campaign to ensure the Second Division championship. He went to Stockport for the 1900-01 season, playing in 25 League games. The Athletics News described him as was "an energetic forward". His professional career ended with Newton Heath (16 League

Another one.
I assume the writings Latin but it's not clear enough to see.