A34 closed | 30 year old man murdered after traffic light "altercation"

[Hes the left back remember]

Not followed this closely,has anyone been caught for this?

 

[MCFCTrick]

Can they do him for manslaughter when he's stabbed him? Surely that's murder. Although the justice system in this country...

That scrote in Nottingham that killed three with a knife, then put several in hospital with a car has had his guilty plea of manslaughter (due to diminished responsibility because of ''mental issues'') accepted by the court. So ...

 

[Eds]

Who the fuck goes out at night with a knife. Minimum sentence was being in possession of a knife should be 15 years (obviously there will be exemptions as some people require a blade for work). This guy should be sentenced to life when it gets to court (just a pity we don't have capital punishment).

 

[hammocity]

The difference being that this guy took a knife after a "loss of self-control" from the kitchen. He wasn't armed already (which seems to be the case at this stage, unless he took it from the victim).

I don't believe that this guy in your link actually had a credible defence, but I'm guessing that the circumstances of family members getting involved to batter him all added up to them giving more respect to that argument than it deserved. A single stab wound supports that argument too.

The man has been arrested on suspicion of murder though. In vast majority of similar cases, a murder conviction sticks.

I’m not disagreeing with you but I’ve read somewhere (and as stated I’ve no real knowledge of this kind of law) that when in Court the Defence can request a murder charge be downgraded to manslaughter and it’s up to the Judge to make a decision. Alternatively the Judge can downgrade the charge if he thinks it would be difficult to obtain a murder conviction.

However I think I’ve seen Court drama’s where someone has been found not guilty of murder but consequently guilty of manslaughter.

I think @gordondaviesmoustache may be able to help out here even if he doesn’t practice within this field.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

That scrote in Nottingham that killed three with a knife, then put several in hospital with a car has had his guilty plea of manslaughter (due to diminished responsibility because of ''mental issues'') accepted by the court. So ...

If the accused has paranoid schizophrenia, he might be able to plead that too.

 

[hammocity]

Not followed this closely,has anyone been caught for this?

Yep, an 18/19 year old, arrested on the evening of the incident.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I’m not disagreeing with you but I’ve read somewhere (and as stated I’ve no real knowledge of this kind of law) that when in Court the Defence can request a murder charge be downgraded to manslaughter and it’s up to the Judge to make a decision. Alternatively the Judge can downgrade the charge if he thinks it would be difficult to obtain a murder conviction.

However I think I’ve seen Court drama’s where someone has been found not guilty of murder but consequently guilty of manslaughter.

I think @gordondaviesmoustache may be able to help out here even if he doesn’t practice within this field.

I don’t but I know quite a few people that do!

There are many offences which have alternatives for juries to make findings of guilt on. Section 18/Section 20 assault and dangerous/careless driving spring to mind, and murder/ manslaughter is another.

The only meaningful difference between the two in terms of guilt is the state of mind of the person who committed the offence. Murder requires an intention to kill or cause serious harm, manslaughter requires a lower threshold of intent (eg intention to cause (some) harm or gross negligence).

It wouldn’t be up to the judge though, except in guess in very rare circumstances but it’s almost unheard of in murder trials because the intent of the defendant is very much a matter for the jury.

What the charge is, is entirely in the hands of the prosecution, not the judge. They’ve bring the prosecution, not the court. Once an indictment has been preferred a judge can refuse an application to add charges, but again this is very rare (although did happen in the Yorkshire Ripper trial iirc).

The defence can’t ask the court to downgrade the charge (as this comes from the prosecution) but the defendant could plead not guilty to murder and guilty to manslaughter and it would then be up to the prosecution if they wished to proceed with a murder trial. If they did, then it would be up to the jury as to whether they intended to kill/cause serious harm and if so, to convict of murder.

Hope that helps!

 

[hammocity]

I don’t but I know quite a few people that do!

There are many offences which have alternatives for juries to make findings of guilt on. Section 18/Section 20 assault and dangerous/careless driving spring to mind, and murder/ manslaughter is another.

The only meaningful difference between the two in terms of guilt is the state of mind of the person who committed the offence. Murder requires an intention to kill or cause serious harm, manslaughter requires a lower threshold of intent (eg intention to cause (some) harm or gross negligence).

It wouldn’t be up to the judge though, except in guess in very rare circumstances but it’s almost unheard of in murder trials because the intent of the defendant is very much a matter for the jury.

What the charge is, is entirely in the hands of the prosecution, not the judge. They’ve bring the prosecution, not the court. Once an indictment has been preferred a judge can refuse an application to add charges, but again this is very rare (although did happen in the Yorkshire Ripper trial iirc).

The defence can’t ask the court to downgrade the charge (as this comes from the prosecution) but the defendant could plead not guilty to murder and guilty to manslaughter and it would then be up to the prosecution if they wished to proceed with a murder trial. If they did, then it would be up to the jury as to whether they intended to kill/cause serious harm and if so, to convict of murder.

Hope that helps!

Yep, it does, always good to have the input of someone who understands the law.

I did basic law in my HND course many years ago, as it was Business Studies it was mostly Contract and Tort related. I don’t remember too much (it was 47 years ago) but one of the first cases we studied (and probably everyone else who’s done law) was Donoghue v Stevenson, Snail in a Ginger beer bottle. A far cry from the murder (or manslaughter :-;) being discussed in this thread!

 

[Indaparkside]

He’ll be crying for his mum when he’s getting creamed up the dirt box , big gangsters till they get in the big house and see what real gangsters are like

 

[tweety]

Judging by the number of suspended sentences at the moment, they must be. Another one in my town had 50,000 images of children on his gadgets including some Cat A. Suspended sentence.

There must be a couple of stories a week in my local rag about nonces caught with child porn getting community service or suspended sentences, makes your blood boil.