Academy Pathway to the First Team

[ninjamonkey]

People want everything when everything isn’t possible. They want a world class trophy winning side but they want it full of teenage kids from the academy too. Doesn’t work like that. Of course that’s the ultimate aim but it maybe happens once in a lifetime for one club in the world, the odds of it happening here in the near future regardless of how good our academy set up is, is extremely remote.

We only really have two options, we carry on bringing in top quality players with the aim of genuinely competing for every trophy going and hope the kids can emerge without the helping hand as we are doing now or we can take the approach of somebody like a Dortmund or a Monaco of a few years back and buy in the best kids you can find, promise them first team football, throw them in at the deep end, sacrifice any real chance of silverware for a few years and in return we get quite small increased chance of developing and keeping that team of kids until they progress into a side capable of winning stuff.

Teams typically take the second option because they can’t afford the first and it makes them a lot of money. That’s not an issue here so why would we hinder ourselves in pursuit of the same ultimate result?

If the kids are good enough they’ll force themselves into the side, yes we will lose a few along the way who could have found a spot in our squad but that’s the price of success.

If there were teams across Europe bringing through kids regularly and winning trophies equally as regularly they’d be questions rightly asked but there isn’t because to get the two is a near miracle.

 

[Scaring Europe to Death]

One of my pet hates (of which there are currently many) is the mythical graph of incremental improvement, whereby a young player doesn't mature or peak until his 28th birthday.
In the real world Leroy Sane is 25 next month, but his best season was in 2017-18, and if Robbie Fowler had ever fulfilled the potential glory of his first few seasons at Liverpool, then he would never have signed for City as a tubby replacement for Shaun Goater at the age of 27
You could make the same argument with Owen and Rooney, because your first thought is always those early International tournaments when they burst upon the world stage.
For whatever reason both careers drifted, and Owen in particular, soon faded from influential to peripheral by the time of his mid 20s.
Rooney is the same age as Ronaldo, but whereas the latter is still capable of fleeting brilliance, it seems as though Rooney has been foul-mouthing to mediocrity for almost a decade.

That's the danger with Phil Foden, because whilst we're all desperate for him to succeed, he isn't really grasping the opportunity, and asserting himself as the first name on the teamsheet. Yes, he's got the potential, but he needs to do it now. Otherwise he'll drift like all those "Next George Best" jokers from Beardsmore to Welbeck and beyond.

 

[Centurions]

So, Braaf is the latest promising youngster who doesn't seem to have a future at the club. What do folk think about that? More importantly, what does it tell us about Pep, his coaching skills, and/or the hierarchy at the club?

Pessimists may say it's a sign that Pep is not interested in our academy/youth development and would prefer to bring in finished products from elsewhere. That he is not such a great coach if he cannot upskill and promote talented kids into the first team squad. Or simply that he has just lost his mojo and doesn't really care about the future at all.

Optimists may argue that he is a great judge of a player, with very high standards, and recognises that the club needs to recruit the best from around the world irrespective of age in order to win the top trophies - particularly the Champions League which is in reality his sole focus now.

Interestingly, in Pep's early time at the club, particularly his first season, the perceived wisdom was that Pep wasn't keen on dealing with senior experienced pros, preferring to mould (bully?) younger players into his ways?

Really poor choice of youth player to have a pop at Pep all things considered.

Jayden Braaf joins Borussia Dortmund on a permanent deal

is he actually any closer to breaking into the first tem...if he cant do it this season then he will be off...they way members of the first team are playing he should at least get a chance in the League cup or some dead rubber match at some point. hes only just come back from injury

forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk

Post #455 and on.

 

[FantasyIreland]

We now have no excuses not to rest up players, doyle can do what gundo can. Palmer can see games out to rest up kdb. Delap can see out games and cause mayhem when we are up a few goals. Hopefully they get time over Xmas but I'm not confident.

This is the bone of contention for many i believe.There have been several opportunities,in between Pep's concerns at a lack of recovery and the amount of substitutes available,to introduce EDS players and the manager has decided not to.

I hear people say Pep is also handling Foden brilliantly.....i don't agree,he needs to be given more starting minutes and playing consistently,he is clearly a confidence player that gets down when he cant give his best,flitting in and out of the side isnt helping that.

 

[Scaring Europe to Death]

This is the bone of contention for many i believe.There have been several opportunities,in between Pep's concerns at a lack of recovery and the amount of substitutes available,to introduce EDS players and the manager has decided not to.

I hear people say Pep is also handling Foden brilliantly.....i don't agree,he needs to be given more starting minutes and playing consistently,he is clearly a confidence player that gets down when he cant give his best,flitting in and out of the side isnt helping that

This is the bone of contention for many i believe.There have been several opportunities,in between Pep's concerns at a lack of recovery and the amount of substitutes available,to introduce EDS players and the manager has decided not to.

I hear people say Pep is also handling Foden brilliantly.....i don't agree,he needs to be given more starting minutes and playing consistently,he is clearly a confidence player that gets down when he cant give his best,flitting in and out of the side isnt helping that.

I agree completely, but would add that it's about time the club decided Foden's best position, and started picking him with that on mind.
There isn't a player in the world capable of playing on the left one week, then as the playmaker, or as a left footed right midfielder, or simply box-to-box-10 goals a season.

 

[Manchester33]

There's an order of preference for me:

1 - Win trophies
2 - Play good football
3 - Use academy and local players (preferably actual City fans from around Greater Manchester)

So far Pep has exceeded in the first two, and he's made more of an effort with 3 than any of our other recent managers. Tell me which academy prospect Mancini or Pellegrini worked into our first team? The only thing I don't like is when Pep plays a senior player out of position instead of an academy player. This is where Klopps good, he trusts the kids more than Pep does - but that's easier to do when the system you play is more basic.

 

[FantasyIreland]

I agree completely, but would add that it's about time the club decided Foden's best position, and started picking him with that on mind.
There isn't a player in the world capable of playing on the left one week, then as the playmaker, or as a left footed right midfielder, or simply box-to-box-10 goals a season.

Yep,spot on.

Ive just mentioned that in the prematch thread,Pep needs to start playing his best 11 in their best positions.By trying to be inventive and shoehorning players into a formation,he isnt doing anyone any favours and he certainly isnt getting the best out of he team.

 

[Fordyboy46]

We must be the only prem team who aren't prepared to gamble on our kids playing week in week out in prem matches. Foden being the exception but even he finds himself out of the starting eleven on a regular basis, really pisses me off. Who would people rather be watching, Tommy Doyle giving it his all on that pitch or 62m Rodri plodding along making sideways passes all the time?. I know which I favour.

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

One of my pet hates (of which there are currently many) is the mythical graph of incremental improvement, whereby a young player doesn't mature or peak until his 28th birthday.
In the real world Leroy Sane is 25 next month, but his best season was in 2017-18, and if Robbie Fowler had ever fulfilled the potential glory of his first few seasons at Liverpool, then he would never have signed for City as a tubby replacement for Shaun Goater at the age of 27
You could make the same argument with Owen and Rooney, because your first thought is always those early International tournaments when they burst upon the world stage.
For whatever reason both careers drifted, and Owen in particular, soon faded from influential to peripheral by the time of his mid 20s.
Rooney is the same age as Ronaldo, but whereas the latter is still capable of fleeting brilliance, it seems as though Rooney has been foul-mouthing to mediocrity for almost a decade.

That's the danger with Phil Foden, because whilst we're all desperate for him to succeed, he isn't really grasping the opportunity, and asserting himself as the first name on the teamsheet. Yes, he's got the potential, but he needs to do it now. Otherwise he'll drift like all those "Next George Best" jokers from Beardsmore to Welbeck and beyond.

Agree with all that. Many players have been burned out by 25. Michael Owen and Robbie Fowler certainly come into that category. Even the greatest stars probably shine brightest for perhaps three peak seasons. That said I think Foden has been one of our better players in this crazy season and am confident his big moment will come (perhaps in the CL final when we finally tick as a team)

 

[HelloCity]

So, Braaf is the latest promising youngster who doesn't seem to have a future at the club. What do folk think about that? More importantly, what does it tell us about Pep, his coaching skills, and/or the hierarchy at the club?

Pessimists may say it's a sign that Pep is not interested in our academy/youth development and would prefer to bring in finished products from elsewhere. That he is not such a great coach if he cannot upskill and promote talented kids into the first team squad. Or simply that he has just lost his mojo and doesn't really care about the future at all.

Optimists may argue that he is a great judge of a player, with very high standards, and recognises that the club needs to recruit the best from around the world irrespective of age in order to win the top trophies - particularly the Champions League which is in reality his sole focus now.

Interestingly, in Pep's early time at the club, particularly his first season, the perceived wisdom was that Pep wasn't keen on dealing with senior experienced pros, preferring to mould (bully?) younger players into his ways?

Absolutely clueless.