Afghanistan

[BlueMoonRisin’]

Almost meaningless words. Who is the “we” that should look after our own first and who are our own that need looking after? The government and successive ones before show no appetite for or inclination to look after our own. We are a wealthy country that has citizens living in abject poverty. Looking after refugees isn’t the cause of that

You've answered your own question pal; )

 

[journolud]

You've answered your own question pal; )

Ah right you are and you haven’t. Do you think it’s possible that a civilised and sophisticated country like ours is able to “look after our own” and simultaneously offer comfort and shelter to refugees or do you really think these things have to be done in order?

 

[BobKowalski]

Ah right you are and you haven’t. Do you think it’s possible that a civilised and sophisticated country like ours is able to “look after our own” and simultaneously offer comfort and shelter to refugees or do you really think these things have to be done in order?

The cry to ‘look after our own’ only surfaces when faced with providing safe harbour to others. Absent the prospect of taking in refugees, they go back to not giving a shit about ‘our own’.

 

[bluethrunthru]

People overlook the fact we live in a country where the Govt looks after our own by systematically slashing support for people and the services they need. Is taking £20 in benefits off the least well off an example of a Govt caring for British people? Is freezing the self employed out of Govt Covid relief payments for 18 months a way of looking after people?

 

[BlueMoonRisin’]

Ah right you are and you haven’t. Do you think it’s possible that a civilised and sophisticated country like ours is able to “look after our own” and simultaneously offer comfort and shelter to refugees or do you really think these things have to be done in order?

Every government in my lifetime has swept homelessness under the carpet as though it doesn't exist. I don't know how well travelled you are throughout the UK but I've worked pretty much the length and breadth of mainland UK. It's rife, especially in big cities. And yes, i believe charity does begin at home and if it wasn't for homeless charities and human kindness a lot of genuine poor souls on the streets would/will starve to death.

As for Afghan civilians i think their plight is pretty desperate and anyone with a heart feels for them. But we simply cannot let anyone in every time they're in crisis in their own country because it's gotten to the state of being overcrowded here already.

What do you think?

 

[journolud]

Every government in my lifetime has swept homelessness under the carpet as though it doesn't exist. I don't know how well travelled you are throughout the UK but I've worked pretty much the length and breadth of mainland UK. It's rife, especially in big cities. And yes, i believe charity does begin at home and if it wasn't for homeless charities and human kindness a lot of genuine poor souls on the streets would/will starve to death.

As for Afghan civilians i think their plight is pretty desperate and anyone with a heart feels for them. But we simply cannot let anyone in every time they're in crisis in their own country because it's gotten to the state of being overcrowded here already.

What do you think?

Homelessness is the most visible but by no means the only or most important symbol of an unequal society that is maintained by successive governments. I'm sure as well I don't need to tell you that there are many different reasons for homelessness and the solution isn't simply to offer all the homeless a home. But that is a separate and very complex issue.

I'd agree that there are times this country appears to be overcrowded but again this is a complex issue. Without wanting to be too facetious we are surely a bit less crowded now that bBexit has driven half of our workforce back to their countries of origin.

I think Afghanistan, another complex issue, is a different case to other countries that people are trying to escape from given our involvement there and the apparent number of Afghan citizens who were "on our side" that we now appear to have abandoned.

Still I'll stick to my original point that this country, or those in charge of driving policy in this country show a lack of compassion, empathy or whatever you want to call it equally for our own disenfranchised and dispossessed as those from other countries. Charity might begin at home but true charity should have no end. We are saddled with a government and ruling class who broadly speaking feather their own nests.

 

[Octavian]

America has sacrificed fuck all for Afghanistan.

Please don't come whining to me about 2,500 dead Americans when you killed 100,000 Afghans and 66,000 Afghan Army personnel.

You used it to keep your industrial military complex going and expanding, and the one single ounce of good to come from it was that Afghanistan had made significant steps forward in women's rights, healthcare, and some development indices.

The only thing you had to do was not withdraw the tiny outpost of troops that kept the Taliban at bay, and not strike a peace deal with the Taliban, gifting them the country back, releasing 5,000 high value prisoners to destroy the morale of the Afghan army and then fuck off leaving the people who helped you to get slaughtered.


And while we're throwing a pity party for the Americans lets not forget who trained, financed and put the Taliban in power in the first place and brought in their religious theocracy because you were so fucking consumed with the red scare.



By the way, yes, I actually think Afghan women shouldn't be married off as 12 year olds, be forbidden from going to school, or walk alone, and they don't deserve to get beaten, raped, and killed for whatever reason her husband comes up with.

I think that's the kind of rights everyone should have, and I think the country that installed an extreme Islamic theocracy that takes away those rights has some responsibility to fix it, even if it means putting 2% of your military there to keep things normal for 20, 30, 40 years while things recover.

Sorry for my European arrogance.

Cannot agree with your first line, in fact I think it’s a disgraceful paragraph, unless I’ve totally misunderstood.

the 2,500 Americans who gave their lives are heroes, as are those who survived and the same as our troops. My family fought there, our lads and “whining” about those that died, well fuck you.

The rest of your post I agree with.

 

[domalino]

Cannot agree with your first line, in fact I think it’s a disgraceful paragraph, unless I’ve totally misunderstood.

the 2,500 Americans who gave their lives are heroes, as are those who survived and the same as our troops. My family fought there, our lads and “whining” about those that died, well fuck you.

The rest of your post I agree with.

Some individual Americans sacrificed everything, the country of America sacrificed nothing.

166,000 dead. A country torn apart and bombed to oblivion. Economy destroyed, entire towns wiped off the face of the earth.

Thats a country suffering.

And sorry but I do find it to be incredibly distatasteful to complain about or try to use the deaths of 2500 US soldiers as a reason to withdraw from a country where 50x that many civilians are dead, and 26x more Afghan soldiers have died because of a war the USA started.

 

[Octavian]

Some individual Americans sacrificed everything, the country of America sacrificed nothing.

166,000 dead. A country torn apart and bombed to oblivion. Economy destroyed, entire towns wiped off the face of the earth.

Thats a country suffering.

And sorry but I do find it to be incredibly distatasteful to complain about or try to use the deaths of 2500 US soldiers as a reason to withdraw from a country where 50x that many civilians are dead, and 26x more Afghan soldiers have died because of a war the USA started.

Sorry I had a few ales last night and slightly misunderstood, I actually completely agree with you. The individual soldiers sacrificed a lot, similarly with our lads.

But leaving the mess and withdrawing now is a selfish act and shouldn’t have happened.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

But leaving the mess and withdrawing now is a selfish act and shouldn’t have happened.

After 20 years we've accomplished nothing - enough Afghans want some sort of Islamic state and are willing to die for it. We've done nothing to change this sentiment - and that the moment we withdraw, the Taliban seize control of the country, indicates just how prevalent support for a fundamentalist Islamic state must be.

Staying in Afghanistan is simply nation building. And after 20 years of nation building - nothing's changed.