Afghanistan

bluethrunthru said:
I agree - but we are getting a raw deal off governments we elect ........ nothing to do with people coming here - btw net migration has been in decline for 4 years

U.K. Net Migration (1960-2024)

Net migration is the net total of migrants during the period, that is, the total number of immigrants less the annual number of emigrants, including both citizens and noncitizens. Data are five-year estimates.
www.macrotrends.net www.macrotrends.net
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Of course it has something to do with people coming here. A decline although good(for some not those who can never give a figure) is relative to the peak.

Anyhow the government need to allow a number of Afghans in as a matter of urgency. They are very likely to mess it up mind.
 
Blue Mist said:
Totally agree but my comnent relates to all the gobshite MPs now sounding so knowledgeable and right. Kuwait, Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan. Do they never learn? We need to stop being a puppet of the US. We need to accept we are not a world power. America decided when to go in and how to withdraw and so we had to follow.
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The question is, did we have to withdraw or could we have stayed as a NATO force without the USA?

By the looks of it we didn’t even discuss it with our partners so took the easy route out.
 
Uptop said:
The 2015 Documentary 'Bitter Lake' gives a good insight into the history of Afghanistan and how everything has gone the way it has, opened my eyes to a lot I never knew about how things came to be in the region and the geopolitical reasons behind a lot of it.

Having watched it, it is easy to see how this was the inevitable outcome with the people in charge seemingly also not understanding the situation (or not caring).

It is very sad and graphic at times but I think it is important for people to see and know the history if you have an interest, is available on iPlayer and is around 2hrs long.
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Thanks for this. I just watched it all. It was absolutely fascinating. I already knew quite a lot of what was covered but was still shocked by how corrupt, deceitful and violent the Afghan country can be.

The interview with the British soldier near the end about being used by Afghans to fight their internal squabbles on their behalf was especially galling. Every other Afghan lied to them about the others being Taliban who they subsequently attacked. The British fighting everybody, thinking they were all Taliban. The Afghans fighting each other knowing who was who.

The British have been conned by these barbarians since 1839. The Russians and Americans have been ripped off too since the 1950s. And next we have to cope with thousands of immigrants.
 
The Future’s Blue! said:
The question is, did we have to withdraw or could we have stayed as a NATO force without the USA?

By the looks of it we didn’t even discuss it with our partners so took the easy route out.
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I think that is the case and the subject of some of the criticism aimed at Johnson and Rabb by backbench Tories. Biden ignored a plan to maintain low level of US and other forces in Afghanistan and decided to pull out completely. We just fell in line. Totally spineless.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Well in that case there is 1.4 million Afghan refugees in Pakistan and there will be millions more - we should just take them all.
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Is it worth discussing with statements like this? You are obviously aware that the mission in Afghanistan was more than one nation, actually many. That would mean that the alliance would have to take their fair share and give priority to those most in need. Putting a limit on that at this stage is farcical and your statement reminds me very much of Alf Garnett and the Little Englander mindset that I thought had all but disappeared from general conversation.
 
The Future’s Blue! said:
Is it worth discussing with statements like this? You are obviously aware that the mission in Afghanistan was more than one nation, actually many. That would mean that the alliance would have to take their fair share and give priority to those most in need. Putting a limit on that at this stage is farcical and your statement reminds me very much of Alf Garnett and the Little Englander mindset that I thought had all but disappeared from general conversation.
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It’s just the opposite extreme lazy debating style.

Someone suggests we take slightly more than they're happy with and suggest we might as well take them all.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
I think that is the case and the subject of some of the criticism aimed at Johnson and Rabb by backbench Tories. Biden ignored a plan to maintain low level of US and other forces in Afghanistan and decided to pull out completely. We just fell in line. Totally spineless.
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When you think about it, each NATO country would only have to keep 1 person in Afghanistan with the express detail that if any of them feel under threat then the entire NATO force will be unleashed.

This was a choice, our country, as others, ran away as cowards which will now allow other competing country’s to gain influence in the region.
 
Let's confiscate second homes. That would free up half a million houses.

2nd home owners get votes in two council areas. They can choose to vote in a marginal constituency rather than a safe seat. They can be NIMBY and oppose affordable housing for locals near their holiday home.

Assuming two adults, that's a million votes available for wealth gerrymandering.

And space for 20,000 refugees a year for 25 years (at one per house...).
 
BLUEMATT23 said:
Bang on.
Many years ago after renting for years I asked Trafford Council about getting a flat.
They basically said to me because I was single and had 0 kids that I would be bottom of the list and would stand little chance. I was staggered at their response.
After 3 years I gave up. After another 15 years I finally saved for my 1st mortgage, I was 44.

The point I'm making is I don't think it's fair that hard working people can't get houses or flats yet we continue to let thousands and thousands of people who have not paid into the system. And they are entitled to benefits tv licences, discounts on other things.
The government doesn't care enough for its own people and its treatment of single men is appalling.
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Tv licenses?

How many of them are over 75 or blind?

www.gov.uk

Get a free or discounted TV licence

You can get a free TV licence if you're 75 or over and you get Pension Credit, or a discount if you're blind or in residential care - who qualifies, how to apply
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk

Blame successive governments, particularly the Tories for not doing anything to sort out the lack of social housing and propped up the private sector bubble.
 
Vic said:
Let's confiscate second homes. That would free up half a million houses.

2nd home owners get votes in two council areas. They can choose to vote in a marginal constituency rather than a safe seat. They can be NIMBY and oppose affordable housing for locals near their holiday home.

Assuming two adults, that's a million votes available for wealth gerrymandering.

And space for 20,000 refugees a year for 25 years (at one per house...).
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That was the sort of policy pursued by Johnsons idol Churchill - whole towns were requisitioned - to home foreign nationals on the IoM or for the Yanks to shell to practise for D-Day in Devon. Of course Johnson only idolises Winston but couldn't bring himself to make hard decisions. Put Johnson in Churchill's place and he'd have thought that requisitioning the fleet of small boats to make Dunkirk happen was anti-libertarian and "big government" and he's have cancelled the Spitfire orders and expected the RAF to get by with Gloster Gladiators already on strength.
 
Fode N The Hole said:
Blame successive governments, particularly the Tories for not doing anything to sort out the lack of social housing and propped up the private sector bubble.
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Their answer was the bedroom tax - penalise council tenants until they left their home. Somehow yer mam and Dad staying in their council house after you and 5 siblings fled the nest had to be punished whereas the old lady who owns her own 5 bedroom house living on her own was cool and Bob and Thelma owning a "little bolt hole in Devon " for weekends away was just fine and dandy.
 
BLUEMATT23 said:
I was making a point about housing not Jobs specifically. I agree lots of immigrants are more hard working than some of the British and I do not object to them being here within reason.
I'm just making a point that they get treated a hell of a lot better than people born here and who have lived all their lives here.
I think uk residents get a very raw deal to be honest, High taxes, insane working hours and broken health system not to mention our awful roads. And when you want to see a doctor they don't want to know you.
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I’m totally in agreement with your issues, mate, but it’s not a refugee problem but more of how we treat our own. Refugees live under many fears and one is that many are still not guaranteed asylum, meaning that they live under it, constantly.

Many years ago there was the same argument made about their living standards being much higher than UK citizens but when you looked into it it was complete nonsense. They had no rights, weren’t allowed to sign a tenancy agreement and were limited to what and where they could spend their limited benefits.

What you are having to face is disgusting but it is not down to refugees, it is down to the government people put in power.
 
Fode N The Hole said:
Tv licenses?

How many of them are over 75 or blind?

www.gov.uk

Get a free or discounted TV licence

You can get a free TV licence if you're 75 or over and you get Pension Credit, or a discount if you're blind or in residential care - who qualifies, how to apply
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk

Blame successive governments, particularly the Tories for not doing anything to sort out the lack of social housing and propped up the private sector bubble.
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They did. They made it worse. They enabled council house tenants to buy houses at a discount then sell them at a profit to private landlords who now rent them at higher rents to a new generation who will not be able to afford their own home or have the right to buy what used to be a council house.
 
BLUEMATT23 said:
I was making a point about housing not Jobs specifically. I agree lots of immigrants are more hard working than some of the British and I do not object to them being here within reason.
I'm just making a point that they get treated a hell of a lot better than people born here and who have lived all their lives here.
I think uk residents get a very raw deal to be honest, High taxes, insane working hours and broken health system not to mention our awful roads. And when you want to see a doctor they don't want to know you.
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Bollocks
 
bluethrunthru said:
Their answer was the bedroom tax - penalise council tenants until they left their home. Somehow yer mam and Dad staying in their council house after you and 5 siblings fled the nest had to be punished whereas the old lady who owns her own 5 bedroom house living on her own was cool and Bob and Thelma owning a "little bolt hole in Devon " for weekends away was just fine and dandy.
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And without even the incentive to downsize by having abolished the rates (an enduring redistribution of wealth to the rich, a legacy of the poll tax).
 
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