Agenda against City? Ref Stats 2012/13

Not one to believe in an agenda. For starters it would be impossible to target every official (Linesmen included) and tell them to fix the games, one of them one would grass surely. I do believe that individual referees hold grudges and favour certain teams. Arsenal are a team I think are targeted by certain refs, Arsene isn't known for being friendly to officials.
 
No penalties conceded or red cards for the rags eh? That's a shocker!
 
No red cards or penalties against the rags all season???

Ok, i know they have 5 games left for that to change, but it would be interesting to know if thats ever happened to any team before.

Might be worth finding out the bookmakers odds on that stat staying the same till the end of the season, and getting some cash on it.

Also, i note that Phil Dowd hasn't reffed them this season. I'm pretty sure i seem to recall rednose saying he's too fat to ref the rags. Coincidence?
 
Really could do with all this breaking down into even more detail as in where the fouls were committed and by which players and in what minute then we could really have a mass debate on the (t)issue !!

Until that point this really is superfluous flim flam so come on pull your sodding finger out man and furnish us with some meaningful data so I can take some more valuable time out from my already busy fucking working day.. watching this paint dry !
 
Pigeonho said:
My own cat meme. I've made it!

Those stats prove absolutely zero, too. Like i've asked a thousand times before, have each of the refs who have given those decisions been given a letter, email, (can't be that, too traceable), or any other form of communication which states 'make sure those ***** fail'? Were they given it last season, the season when we won the league? What about the season before when we won the cup, and this season too when history is likely to repeat itself? If there is an agenda, it's not working well is it? And please don't say look at the league table, because we only have ourselves to blame for that.

The margins between those stats are quite slim anyway.

Can only admire the effort gone into it though, (genuinely).

I've saved that meme ;-)

The problem with this opinion is that it only allows for two options: either there is a full blown conspiracy where there is a specific, concentrated and concerted effort to thwart City's progress or there is no bias whatsoever and it is all a figment of everybody's imagination and the product of paranoid delusion.

I think the number of serious posters who take the view that Mr Big (whoever he might be) sat down in a room filled with cigar smoke and came up with a 10 point plan to derail the City project which was then widely circulated to FIFA, the premier league, the FA, UEFA, the media and the referees association is zero. The fact remains that the evidence that the rags get preferential treatment to us in a variety of ways is overwhelming and incontrovertible.

I take four points from the OP to illustrate this:

(a) not a single penalty has been given against the rags in over 2880 minutes of league football this season

(b) not a single rag player has been sent off this season even though we have players sent off every 930 minutes, Chelsea every 1440 minutes and Arsenal every 720 minutes

(c) not a single referee has awarded City more free kicks than the teams we are playing. By contrast 9 out of 15 referees have awarded the rags more free kicks than their opposition.

(d) although we are 4th in the table of number of yellow cards given for fouls against our team (60), and top of the fouls per yellow card table in that a yellow card is shown to the teams we are playing for on average every 5.9 fouls, only once has a second yellow card has been shown to one of our opponents in the games we have played (Pienaar at everton - the other red was the straight red shown early away at arsenal).

If the accusation that the rags get preferential treatment in a number of ways (and we get the opposite) holds water - and the evidence for it is overwhelming - there are a number of plausible explanations. Personal grudges, match fixing, bias, fear of giving controversial decisions, vested interests, career advancement and so on have all been discussed. Probably different instances of bias or preferential treatment are the effects of different causes - there may be some instances of referees being influenced by match fixing but it is quite unlikely that they all are, whereas for some personal bias on the basis of the team they support may be the explanation but it is unlikely that that is always the explanation. For some it might be a question of not wanting to antagonise vested interests and powerful forces. The pisscan regularly berates officials that make decisions he does not like. You never know what goes on behind the scenes but last season after Clattenberg sent off Evans in the 6-1, he didn't referee the rags again. Most referees want to take charge of the big games, like the Manchester derby, or Rags v Dippers/Chelsea/Arsenal and if you give too much against the rags that seems to limit the chances you will be appointed to one of those games.

But the implication that there is no bias, no preferential treatment at all is just ostrich like, and the further implication that anyone who thinks otherwise is paranoid and deluded is just insulting - especially given the time and trouble taken to research the issue, and to provide and evidential platform for their opinions.
 
Chris in London said:
Pigeonho said:
My own cat meme. I've made it!

Those stats prove absolutely zero, too. Like i've asked a thousand times before, have each of the refs who have given those decisions been given a letter, email, (can't be that, too traceable), or any other form of communication which states 'make sure those ***** fail'? Were they given it last season, the season when we won the league? What about the season before when we won the cup, and this season too when history is likely to repeat itself? If there is an agenda, it's not working well is it? And please don't say look at the league table, because we only have ourselves to blame for that.

The margins between those stats are quite slim anyway.

Can only admire the effort gone into it though, (genuinely).

I've saved that meme ;-)

The problem with this opinion is that it only allows for two options: either there is a full blown conspiracy where there is a specific, concentrated and concerted effort to thwart City's progress or there is no bias whatsoever and it is all a figment of everybody's imagination and the product of paranoid delusion.

I think the number of serious posters who take the view that Mr Big (whoever he might be) sat down in a room filled with cigar smoke and came up with a 10 point plan to derail the City project which was then widely circulated to FIFA, the premier league, the FA, UEFA, the media and the referees association is zero. The fact remains that the evidence that the rags get preferential treatment to us in a variety of ways is overwhelming and incontrovertible.

I take four points from the OP to illustrate this:

(a) not a single penalty has been given against the rags in over 2880 minutes of league football this season

(b) not a single rag player has been sent off this season even though we have players sent off every 930 minutes, Chelsea every 1440 minutes and Arsenal every 720 minutes

(c) not a single referee has awarded City more free kicks than the teams we are playing. By contrast 9 out of 15 referees have awarded the rags more free kicks than their opposition.

(d) although we are 4th in the table of number of yellow cards given for fouls against our team (60), and top of the fouls per yellow card table in that a yellow card is shown to the teams we are playing for on average every 5.9 fouls, only once has a second yellow card has been shown to one of our opponents in the games we have played (Pienaar at everton - the other red was the straight red shown early away at arsenal).

If the accusation that the rags get preferential treatment in a number of ways (and we get the opposite) holds water - and the evidence for it is overwhelming - there are a number of plausible explanations. Personal grudges, match fixing, bias, fear of giving controversial decisions, vested interests, career advancement and so on have all been discussed. Probably different instances of bias or preferential treatment are the effects of different causes - there may be some instances of referees being influenced by match fixing but it is quite unlikely that they all are, whereas for some personal bias on the basis of the team they support may be the explanation but it is unlikely that that is always the explanation. For some it might be a question of not wanting to antagonise vested interests and powerful forces. The pisscan regularly berates officials that make decisions he does not like. You never know what goes on behind the scenes but last season after Clattenberg sent off Evans in the 6-1, he didn't referee the rags again. Most referees want to take charge of the big games, like the Manchester derby, or Rags v Dippers/Chelsea/Arsenal and if you give too much against the rags that seems to limit the chances you will be appointed to one of those games.

But the implication that there is no bias, no preferential treatment at all is just ostrich like, and the further implication that anyone who thinks otherwise is paranoid and deluded is just insulting - especially given the time and trouble taken to research the issue, and to provide and evidential platform for their opinions.
Until 3/4, QPR hadn't conceded a penalty either. Was there preferential treatment of them until that point, or is it just the case that none of their players had committed a foul inside the area, or hadn't been caught doing so?

There are 2 other clubs who have not had a man sent off this season. Are they being given preferential treatment, or is it just the case that none of their players have been deserving of a red, or at least not been caught doing so?

As for the other points, is it not just the case that those stats are correct and the decisions made/not made were right? If it was Southampton who appeared favoured by those stats, would such a fuss have been made?

Edit: I saw your post the other day in the other thread where you apologised for being aggressive in your response. I didn't think you were anyway but nice one for that. :-)
 
There doesn't have to be a "Mr. Big" all you need is for referees to show slight bias through the teams they support and for referees to Kowtow to criticism.

The fans of the Sky 4 and Spurs hate us for usurping their position. Fans of teams that were at our level also dislike us for being "lucky" when it comes to foreign ownership. Why would this natural bias NOT apply to referees as well? Surely they are fans as well. Every week I see this slight bias in front of me. If a city player taps the heel of an opponent the referee always blow. When the same offence is committed on a City player the level of magnitude of the offence has to be slightly higher for the ref to blow up. This happens in every game we play. I can see it with my own eyes and Statistics only confirm what I already know.

Then there is the Fergusson rant against refereeing decisions that adversely affect his team. Not only is pressure applied to refs in the press after the game, but the Professional Game Match Officials Board (PGMOB), headed by Mike Riley puts pressure on the ref by NOT SELECTING the ref to referee another United game for over a year. This is a scandalous state of affairs and probably is the reason why United Red card and penalties against count is so low.

A few officials probably ARE corrupt - their conduct when analysed statistically is highly suspect so that at the very least they DO let personal bias interfere with there refereeing. But the main reason for the statistics posted by the OP are mainly as a result of slight personal bias and Mike Riley's referee selection policy.
 

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