Alan Sugar

[MellowJoe]

A joke is a joke is a joke. This was a shit one, but clearly he was trying to be humorous. I can't imagine he was trying to make a serious point here. Bad taste? yeah, but certainly not 'overtly racist'

 

[The perfect fumble]

Really? Is it not just a joke about stereotypes?

I'd imagine 90% of the people 'offended' by this are white, vegan, hippy types.

Yeah right, try cracking a joke about Sugar being stereotypically Jewish and see how that works out.

 

[MellowJoe]

Yeah right, try cracking a joke about Sugar being stereotypically Jewish and see how that works out.

If it's intended as a 'joke' .. doesn't that count for something? - I know certain sentences uttered, devoid of context or not, are categorically racist in an 'in and of themselves' kind of way.. but there is always room for the possibility of (shit) humour.

 

[The perfect fumble]

If it's intended as a 'joke' .. doesn't that count for something? - I know certain sentences uttered, devoid of context or not, are categorically racist in an 'in and of themselves' kind of way.. but there is always room for the possibility of (shit) humour.

It boils down to power and perception, Alan Sugar is an establishment figure, rich and powerful and he is making a joke at the expense of a group who are not establishment, in fact the gist of the joke is how transitory these guys are, they are black, and Sugar feels comfortable that they're fair game, he invites us into his world by throwing out a stereotype and assumes we'll nod along, these guys are not professional athletes in the way Harry Kane is, they're the kind of guys who sell dodgy sunglasses one day and African trinkets the next and why might that be I wonder? Sugar says it's because they're resourceful but what he means is that's what blacks do, because that's what they've always done and they've always done these transitory low level jobs, the ones he refers to as multi-tasking, bit dodgy, jack of all trades and master of none, because as we know, nudge, nudge, blacks can't master much else.

 

[MellowJoe]

It boils down to power and perception, Alan Sugar is an establishment figure, rich and powerful and he is making a joke at the expense of a group who are not establishment, in fact the gist of the joke is how transitory these guys are, they are black, and Sugar feels comfortable that they're fair game, he invites us into his world by throwing out a stereotype and assumes we'll nod along, these guys are not professional athletes in the way Harry Kane is, they're the kind of guys who sell dodgy sunglasses one day and African trinkets the next and why might that be I wonder? Sugar says it's because they're resourceful but what he means is that's what blacks do, because that's what they've always done and they've always done these transitory low level jobs, the ones he refers to as multi-tasking, bit dodgy, jack of all trades and master of none, because as we know, nudge, nudge, blacks can't master much else.

I think you're giving Sugar too much credit.. and reading into things too much. But you admit he was trying to make a joke. People do this off-the-cuff ad hoc shit all the time. I'm no fan of Sugar, but what he posted was clearly for laughs only, though it wasn't remotely funny.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Yeah right, try cracking a joke about Sugar being stereotypically Jewish and see how that works out.

Indeed. Imagine someone posting a picture of Sugar alongside am antisemitic cartoon from the Nazi newspaper Der Sturmer and saying "I thought I'd seen him somewhere before".

 

[Bigga]

This was another 'joke' knocking about on twitter over the last few days.

Poland fans have gone on the rampage in Moscow. Police say 300 cars have been washed, waxed and hoovered.

Now, both are equally insulting in my eyes. Only the Alan Sugar one was seen as racist though, with the other laughed off and seen as being funny by many people.
Why's that?

Late reply, but what you're talking about is xenophobic, not racism! Sometimes it's an ENTIRELY different thing!

If you're [White]English and take the mick out of [White]Polish people as a stereotype that is xen·o·pho·bi·a, not racism!!

Same for Australians and their 'friendly' Pom thing and vice versa!

[Black]Jamaicans and [Black]Africans do it to each other; xenophobia, not racism.

Same for Mancs and Scousers.

Racism and xenophobia are the (close) cousins of jingoism.

I don't know why people don't know the difference, these days!

 

[quiet_riot]

If you're [White]English and take the mick out of [White]Polish people as a stereotype that is xen·o·pho·bi·a, not racism!!

What if you're [Black]English and take the mick out of [White]Polish? Does that then become racist because the joke (basically) transcends skin colour?

 

[The perfect fumble]

I think you're giving Sugar too much credit.. and reading into things too much. But you admit he was trying to make a joke. People do this off-the-cuff ad hoc shit all the time. I'm no fan of Sugar, but what he posted was clearly for laughs only, though it wasn't remotely funny.

I'm not, it's unthinking, that's what makes it so insidious.

 

[Bigga]

What if you're [Black]English and take the mick out of [White]Polish? Does that then become racist because the joke (basically) transcends skin colour?

Well, duh.

Your view would be of modern parlance for today's meaning of racism.

Racism started out with Blacks being abused by Whites who held the financial, systematic and societal power over them.

Now, it's just about skin colour.