Alan Turing

[Skashion]

It's one of the great shames of this nation that one of its true heroes, a man who likely saved millions of lives, was treated that way.

Oakie, it should also be pointed out that he wasn't important merely for his role for breaking into Enigma, but in ensuring the speed and consistency in which the settings could be found via the bombes. One of the major problems with Enigma was not only cracking it but making sure the information was still important by the time it was cracked. Early on in the war they could crack it, but it would take weeks by which time the information might be useless. Turing was the main guy in making sure we could read Enigma traffic in time so that it could be useful.

Is it right that the Apple sign is because of his choice of death or a complete myth?

Utter myth. Apple was chosen because Steve Jobs lived in on an apple orchard commune, was a fruitarian, and it came before Atari in the phone book. The bite out of the apple was chosen for stylistic reasons and because it would be easier to protect with regards to intellectual property.

It's also a myth that it was about Isaac Newton. Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak came up with the name on a car journey and for the above reasons, as stated by Woz in his autobiography. The reason for the Isaac Newton association was the image art, and original Apple logo, to the front cover of the Apple I manual:

However, this image was created by Ron Wayne, the third co-founder of Apple who was bring in to draft the legal agreements, type up the operation manuals and settle disputes between Jobs and Woz. He was not there when the name was created and wasn't involved in anything creative in terms of Apple the company. The Isaac Newton logo is something he did with his own artistic licence, although I'm sure Steve Jobs liked it or he would have demanded a redesign.

 

[Plaything of the gods]

Whilst I welcome it, this royal pardon is purely political and has no moral or legal basis. If Turing has been given this posthumous pardon because he was convicted of a crime - consenting, victimless homosexuality - which is no longer regarded as a crime, then all other victims of that law should also receive pardons. If the pardon is because he is a "special person", then we are in the realm of Rooney and the FA and Captain Fantastic and the law courts, where due process and impartiality goes out the window and those deemed of national importance are placed above the law. It should be all or nothing, not this sop to the LGBTRDJUF lobby.

 

[scotty123]

Gets a royal pardon. Get in

Totally agree.

How many lives did he save by cracking the "enigma" code?

Some historians estimate he was responsible for shortening WW2 by 2 years.

With an estimated 60,000,000 people being killed in the 6 years of war (on all sides), I reckon at least 20,000,000 people. Both my mum and dad might not have survived if it had gone on another 2 years!!

He should be made a fooking Saint.

Agreed, probably saved my Dads life as well, Royal Navy every day of the war if it had carried on who knows, thank you Mr Turing

 

[Skashion]

Whilst I welcome it, this royal pardon is purely political and has no moral or legal basis. If Turing has been given this posthumous pardon because he was convicted of a crime - consenting, victimless homosexuality - which is no longer regarded as a crime, then all other victims of that law should also receive pardons. If the pardon is because he is a "special person", then we are in the realm of Rooney and the FA and Captain Fantastic and the law courts, where due process and impartiality goes out the window and those deemed of national importance are placed above the law. It should be all or nothing, not this sop to the LGBTRDJUF lobby.

His punishment was unduly harsh even for the time. His homosexual partner was given a conditional discharge. He certainly wasn't treated as 'special' in a positive way, even though he was truly special.<br /><br />-- Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:22 am --<br /><br />

Gets a royal pardon. Get in

Totally agree.

How many lives did he save by cracking the "enigma" code?

Some historians estimate he was responsible for shortening WW2 by 2 years.

With an estimated 60,000,000 people being killed in the 6 years of war (on all sides), I reckon at least 20,000,000 people. Both my mum and dad might not have survived if it had gone on another 2 years!!

He should be made a fooking Saint.

Agreed, probably saved my Dads life as well, Royal Navy every day of the war if it had carried on who knows, thank you Mr Turing

That estimate is based on our entire use of intelligence and includes everything to do with Ultra, including Lorenz and the Double-Cross system. Others were crucial in that as well. Remember Turing, revere him, but others deserve the same respect for their contributions.

 

[Bill]

Chemically castrated, wow, seems incomprehensible now.

That's not that long ago really. Di Niro and GDM were in borstal at the time.

I was but seeing that I'm 20 years older than him gdm was not. He would have at an Eton prep school I reckon.

 

[trotsky]

It should be a pardon for all, but, as often happens one high profile case leads the way.
Despite the obvious wrongs, there are far too many people still alive for a general pardon to be given. The government would not want to pay any compensation claims. Or am I being too cynical?

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

It should be a pardon for all, but, as often happens one high profile case leads the way.
Despite the obvious wrongs, there are far too many people still alive for a general pardon to be given. The government would not want to pay any compensation claims. Or am I being too cynical?

No, you are completely correct.
Basically the government has belatedly said is that it was ok to be gay, just as long as you were a war hero, so we'll retrospectively admit that we treated gay and lesbian folk as second class citizens, but only those deemed important enough, and preferably dead, can have an apology for it.
Sorry, but I think it is too little, too late.

 

[Plaything of the gods]

It should be a pardon for all, but, as often happens one high profile case leads the way.
Despite the obvious wrongs, there are far too many people still alive for a general pardon to be given. The government would not want to pay any compensation claims. Or am I being too cynical?

I don't see why any compensation should be due. That was then, this is now, today's morality shouldn't be applied to the past - that's revisionism, and can cut any way. Acknowledge the past, apologise and move on. Didn't Brown apologise about Turing in 2007(?) anyway?

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

It should be a pardon for all, but, as often happens one high profile case leads the way.
Despite the obvious wrongs, there are far too many people still alive for a general pardon to be given. The government would not want to pay any compensation claims. Or am I being too cynical?

I don't see why any compensation should be due. That was then, this is now, today's morality shouldn't be applied to the past - that's revisionism, and can cut any way. Acknowledge the past, apologise and move on. Didn't Brown apologise about Turing in 2007(?) anyway?

No compensation would be due anyway.
A royal pardon is a forgiveness of the crime itself, but it does not acknowledge that the perpetrator was innocent of the crime, and innocence would be a prerequisite for seeking compensation.
Turing broke the law as it stood at the time.
We can justifiably argue that it was a stupid and discriminatory law, but that was the way things were then.

 

[another generation]

'Tis the season of goodwill.