Alexandole Boris de Pfeffel Johnson

blueinsa said:
Just on number 3.

Stop being so fucking condescending for one minute.

I’m sure the families of British servicemen and women killed because of the lies would think so as well.
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I’m not being condescending in the slightest, please do not suggest context that isn’t there and I know people who served in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Saddam needed to go as I say and we were right to do it.

War always has casualties and it’s very unfortunate.

Your tactic on here seems to be find a part of a post you can apply emotion and go for that to win some sort of false moral victory.

As you tried and failed last night.
 
blueinsa said:
No that’s me mocking you all.

Twitter troll leaver?

Is that supposed to mean anything?
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Yes, those on Twitter that are the reason I’ve left.

Remain, Labour, Tory all have them too, don’t worry, it’s just you’re using the rhetoric of one who happens to support leave.
 
BlueAnorak said:
Nah. Your argument is akin to seeing how many angel's you can find dancing on a pin head.
It's up to politicians to call out lies/factual inaccuracies from their opponents.
That's why people created fullfacts and snopes to record inaccuracies.
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It wasn't an argument mate. It was a statement of fact.

Bang your head against the wall, disagreeing with facts as much as you like.
 
If I'm following this (and I'm not really), Johnson's defence in court will be that Blair lied about Iraq?
 
The thing is, the spoilt, bad loser crackpot who has brought this case, did not think through the
ramifications. The intention is to frustrate, block and obstruct Brexit, it didn't work with the hysterical
scare mongering in 2016, the public voted out. The public voted overwhelmingly for Brexit honouring parties
in 2017, they have just done the same, this time much more definitively, yet many will simply never accept this.
It is, a self defeating act, nobody on the Brexit side will switch because of these antics, in fact attitudes will harden,
so ultimately, if Johnson was dragged to court, the re may be outrage and humour in abundance, but nothing changes.
 
Vic said:
If I'm following this (and I'm not really), Johnson's defence in court will be that Blair lied about Iraq?
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I'm no expert on Iraq(although I have a call with an Iraqi in Monday so might need to brush up*) but the UN disagreed with the war at the time if memory serves and they haven't pursued this line of prosecution so I would sugget if they feel there is no case to answer then their probably isn't.

I disagreed with the war at the time, I felt all 'evidence' was hammed up and there was a rush/eagerness to judgement and there was obviously no consideration for aftercare either culturally or structurally but like I said, the UN haven't gone after him so I doubt a civil case in the UK would get very far

*NB - don't mention the war.......
 
Leaver caught telling lies, no problem, remainer objecting, crime of the century.
Leavers queueing up to defend their champion, priceless.... so predictable , liars stick together for the sake of the cause. White lies, then fibs, then "porkies", then outright lies, topped by brexiting in whatever form.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
The thing is, the spoilt, bad loser crackpot who has brought this case, did not think through the
ramifications. The intention is to frustrate, block and obstruct Brexit, it didn't work with the hysterical
scare mongering in 2016, the public voted out. The public voted overwhelmingly for Brexit honouring parties
in 2017, they have just done the same, this time much more definitively, yet many will simply never accept this.
It is, a self defeating act, nobody on the Brexit side will switch because of these antics, in fact attitudes will harden,
so ultimately, if Johnson was dragged to court, the re may be outrage and humour in abundance, but nothing changes.
Click to expand...

Prosecuting Boris Johnson will have no impact on Brexit. It will neither reverse nor facilitate Brexit. But prosecuting Boris Johnson will bring much joy and merriment to a lot of people so cheer up as you are starting to sound a teensy bit hysterical.
 
BobKowalski said:
Prosecuting Boris Johnson will have no impact on Brexit. It will neither reverse nor facilitate Brexit. But prosecuting Boris Johnson will bring much joy and merriment to a lot of people so cheer up as you are starting to sound a teensy bit hysterical.
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ha, exactly. i mean, why does anyone really give a f*ck if he's taken to court over it?
 
mcfc1632 said:
Yep - what a load of bollocks this is

I bet the senior judiciary are proper embarrassed
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I think you will find that senior QC and judges fully support these sorts of procedures. We have laws and they should be enforced. If there is no case to answer here then the ruling will reflect that. This does open up a decent debate and from such cases we often get changes in law.

Are politicians allowed to lie - it would appear yes. Are civil servants / public officials allowed to lie - no that is contrary to law. Boris was Mayor of London during the campaign when he repeatedly lied. So what comes first the fact he is a politician or a public servant?
 
The ONS Pink Books make interesting reading in relation to Boris Johnsons "lies".

The facts state (ONS Pink Book for 2016 Table 9.9) that regardless of rebate the UK accounted for EU debits of £19.593bn in 2015. That's actually £377m per week. (Which is 27m more than the Leave campaign stated at the time) mainly due to Sugar Levy and European Coal and Steel Levy that are not parts of our annual contribution.

Now this actual figure changes over time and is identified in retrospect and was due to drop.

More Interestingly they changed the calculation method in the 2017 Pink Book so the backdated numbers for previous years are smaller.

So if Boris is guilty, he is only guilty of promoting the ONS calculations.

Search for:

ONS Pink Book 2106 PDF

-and-

ONS Pink Book 2017 PDF

And compare tables 9.9 in both. Note how the statistical methods have changed from 2016 to 2017.

As I stated it is up to politicians to knock back inaccuracies made by politicians/statisticians and fullfacts and snopes have been created to allow punters to measure statement accuracy. Even so they can be slightly wrong as detail can be omitted and statistics can be presented in different ways.

Importantly, regardless of the actual truth of the matter including codicils and assumptions (and aside from libel) you have to allow political debate or democracy is stuffed.
 
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BlueAnorak said:
The facts state (ONS Pink Book for 2016 Table 9.9) that regardless of rebate the UK accounted for EU debits of £19.593bn in 2015. That's actually £377m per week. (Which is 27m more than the Leave campaign stated at the time) mainly due to Sugar Levy and European Coal and Steel Levy that are not parts of our annual contribution.
Now this actual figure changes over time and is identified in retrospect and was due to drop.
More Interestingly they changed the calculation method in 2017 so the backdated numbers for previous years are smaller.
So if Boris is guilty, he is only guilty of promoting the ONS calculations.
Search for:
ONS Pink Book 2106 PDF
-and-
ONS Pink Book 2017 PDF
And compare tables 9.9 in both.

As I stated it is up to politicians to knock back inaccuracies made by politicians/statisticians and fullfacts and snopes have been created to allow punters to measure statement accuracy. Even so they can be slightly wrong as detail can be omitted and statistics can be presented in different ways.
Importantly, regardless of the actual truth of the matter including codicils and assumptions (aside from libel) you have to allow political debate or democracy is stuffed.
Click to expand...
Democracy is already stuffed.
 
BlueAnorak said:
The ONS Pink Books make interesting reading in relation to Boris Johnsons "lies".

The facts state (ONS Pink Book for 2016 Table 9.9) that regardless of rebate the UK accounted for EU debits of £19.593bn in 2015. That's actually £377m per week. (Which is 27m more than the Leave campaign stated at the time) mainly due to Sugar Levy and European Coal and Steel Levy that are not parts of our annual contribution.

Now this actual figure changes over time and is identified in retrospect and was due to drop.

More Interestingly they changed the calculation method in the 2017 Pink Book so the backdated numbers for previous years are smaller.

So if Boris is guilty, he is only guilty of promoting the ONS calculations.

Search for:

ONS Pink Book 2106 PDF

-and-

ONS Pink Book 2017 PDF

And compare tables 9.9 in both. Note how the statistical methods have changed from 2016 to 2017.

As I stated it is up to politicians to knock back inaccuracies made by politicians/statisticians and fullfacts and snopes have been created to allow punters to measure statement accuracy. Even so they can be slightly wrong as detail can be omitted and statistics can be presented in different ways.

Importantly, regardless of the actual truth of the matter including codicils and assumptions (and aside from libel) you have to allow political debate or democracy is stuffed.
Click to expand...
So, if Boris is guilty of repeating, and, it looks like, understating, the £350 mill,and the Data from the Office for
National Statistics, where is the Lie?
I'm not saying he hasn't lied about anything, but this is directed solely at the Bus Ad,it appears, and as the remain camp has
squawked and whinged about everything and everything since losing, I've forgotten what the lie was supposed to be.
 
Not a Boris fan, but the way our judiciary has been weaponised in internal tory politics is appalling really. It's similar to the abuse of position by the speaker of the house IMHO. Another role where neutrality should be at the core but has been forgotten in the current swamp that is our domestic politics. Sad times.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Not a Boris fan, but the way our judiciary has been weaponised in internal tory politics is appalling really. It's similar to the abuse of position by the speaker of the house IMHO. Another role where neutrality should be at the core but has been forgotten in the current swamp that is our domestic politics. Sad times.
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Good post.
 
At this momment too many mard arrses throwing toys out when they don't get a result they want.

Taking every political action or polition who is a **** to court is a quite sad inditement of where we are at.


Though I do believe boris should be arrested and banged up for many things he has done as a minister and london mayor, telling porkies in a referendum campaignisn't one of them as all of the cunts lied.

Also on the side topic blair and campbell lied to parliament for personal reason and beliefs and then blair profiteered off it after leaving office both should be on trial at the Hague never mind crown court.
 
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