Alexandole Boris de Pfeffel Johnson

During this debate on BBC you can only ask questions to all addressed to all candidates on policy. So no questions on why are you are cheating, lieing barsteward?
That's a perfectly fair question under those parameters. They're all cheating, lying barstewards and it's definitely policy as they're Tories.
 
Well Johnson certainly would never be involved at the detailed level - as neither were Davis, Raab and that other so-called 'Brexit Secretary
So he's lying when he says "I will be giving personal direction to the negotiations but we will also have a very strong and ministerially led negotiating team.”...
 
That's a perfectly fair question under those parameters. They're all cheating, lying barstewards and it's definitely policy as they're Tories.
"Have you ever published a poem about verminous Scots?"
"Apart from divorces what have you negotiated?"
"Do you think Tory members who voted for the Brexit Party should vote for you?" (Perhaps not that one, as "yes because I'm a cheating faithless old fart like them" might clinch it)
 
And will it pass with a supermajority both sides of the border? I'm a Republican and a big believer in a United Ireland but extremely uncomfortable with it happening under these circumstances.


Its the only solution to Brexit.......and the people of Northern Ireland want to remain in the Eu so it might (only might) just pass. Johnson (i wish people would stop calling him Boris or Bozo as it humanises him) would not be adverse to throwing an entire country under the bus to deliver the 'Sunny Uplands' and earn his mates £20 trillion (for which they would be forever thankful)
 
Hardly what I said. Many politicians mislead occasionally to try and deliver their agenda; it’s wrong but it’s almost inevitable. Not many tell whoppers nearly every time they open their mouths. It’s the latter ones that should not be anywhere near positions of power and influence. When coupled with abject incompetence it’s even worse.

In answer to the first question probably the Lib Dems because of their clarity on Brexit and the fact that they’re not led by Corbyn. The Conservatives have lost any credibility they may once have had and if Johnson takes over they will become a bigger laughing stock than they already are. And Farage is a fucking fascist with no published policies except one that I totally disagree with.
Lib Dems hey? Not long from now you'll get changeling Chuka running that show, he'll be in a fortnight and
then join the SNP.
 
Very best!! - Were there debates ahead of May's appointment - Cameron's? - any Conservative Leader?

Were there previously debates to select Corbyn?, Vince Cable? - anyone / ever being appointed to lead a political party?

Is this not all simply Remainers concerned that a pro-Leave individual might be appointed leader of the Conservative party?
I'm beginning to think that it may be a possibility.
 
Next PM must be a Leaver prepared to leave with no deal, so for me it has to be Johnson or Gove.
I don't have many/any positivity towards Johnson - but Gove is an absolute snake of a man who cannot be trusted to deliver Brexit at all
 
Blair and his administration was an unmitigated disaster. Putting aside the lies to parliment over the two illegal wars he wanted and the loss of over 700 service men and women, the serious injury to over 5000 and half a million civillian deaths. He also presided over the wholesale privatisation of the NHS via PFI hospital builds at ridiculous unsusptainae jnterst rates for decades. The sale of over 95% of our gold reserves at the lowest market point in years. Giving up our rebate to the EU on an empty promise that the French would renegotiate their farming subsidy, which never happened. He also created massive division in the UK with the devolved parliaments which then resulted in the rise in nationalism we see especially north of the border. He encouraged everybody to go to university even if some wernt actually intelligent enough, then when he realised we the country couldnt pay for it he abolished free higher education and introduced tuition fees for England forcing the vote through parliment with scottish MPs. Lets also not forget his government were also responsible for the deregulation of the financial sector which resulted in massive free and easy credit, soaring house prices massive unsustainable household debt which ultimately led to the uk being at the forefront of the biggest recession in 80years. First in nearly last out.
He is without doubt the worst PM in the last 30 years an utter and complete disgrace of a man who has no humility at all.
I am expecting some to disagree with this - it will identify those that do not understand what happened during that period

The only part that really needs correcting is that you should include Brown on that ticket - he was the leading enthusiast for PFI and the level of real debt and damage that he and Blair caused is largely not understood by the majority of people in the UK IMO. Blair was responsible for letting Brown essentially run the country whilst he was playing global statesman

For me Boris is an individual that does indeed lie and is inherently a shallow person - but there are levels of lying and Blair was/is a liar at the highest and most damaging levels - such a self-serving ****
 
That’s a non-sequitur, and my point isn’t a political one, nor even Brexit related (honestly!)

That someone so widely regarded as dishonest at the time they enter office will slip with such effortless ease into that office is a hugely sad day for this country, in my mind. It would represent a nation that had lost a real sense of morality.

Didn’t we used to have a filter for people like this?
Do you know - I am not sure we ever did have 'fitter' people

Perhaps in this world if the internet etc. we just know more - perhaps all the PMs we had over generations had cupboards full of skeletons and would do what ever was needed to secure/stay in office
 
....it has to be Johnson or Gove.

Johnson is a fundamentally shallow and nasty character doesn't stand for anything except whatever will play well with those he wants to appeal to in order to get himself further up the greasy pole.

Let's take his article on Salafi women who wear the niqab as an example (I have never seen anyone wearing a burka over here and I hang out in the right places), the one with the letter box jibe.

Now before anyone points out that Boris actually did not wish to ban Salafi women from dressing like this, his modus operandi in this instance was to pick an easy target (as Salafis of the quietist variety are apolitical - a point emphasised in Anabel Inge's recent study) and write about them in a manner that plays well with types who twirl their batons and shake their pom poms in support of characters like Yaxley-Lennon. This is possibly why Mohammed Amin, the chairman of the Conservative Muslim Forum has threatened to resign if Johnson gets the nod.

Turning now to Gove [this is a repeat post by the way for the next few paragraphs], it is worth remembering that Gove was once the Education Secretary and pretty much wrecked the state system during his time in office. The fall-out from his incompetence reverberates right down to the present day.

Basically, cash-starved schools have been using the increased managerial powers that Heads and Deputy Heads were granted by him not to identify and remove incompetent staff but to use that as a pretext to get rid of the older, experienced and therefore more expensive ones. This is one of the reasons why schools have been haemorrhaging staff, an exodus prompted by the fact that those with transferable skills who can see the writing on the wall and are young enough to get out have been doing so. Consequently, schools in many areas have been struggling to recruit teachers with relevant degrees in subjects like, say, Physics or Mathematics, to teach GCSE and A Level. Those of you reading this with children of secondary school age might find it fruitful to look around at the next Parents Evening and make a rough calculation as to the average age of the staff they can see. Younger ones are cheaper to come by. Another litmus test if your child is in Years 10 to 13 is to find out whether their subject tutor actually has a degree in the subject they are teaching.

A further reform Gove introduced was to ‘toughen up’ the GCSE and A Level courses due to concerns that they were ‘easy’. But what has happened with some subjects was that the courses were simply crammed with superfluous, additional content that is almost impossible to get through in two years. So teachers now simply cram from day one and the need to rote-learn far too much means that the more important skills of analysis and logical and lateral thinking get neglected. And the effects of the reforms have been nonexistent: the boards that examine are anxious not to lose their ‘customers’ and simply mark these allegedly harder terminal papers more generously. But the effects on the students themselves have been profound, and it is the brighter ones that suffer the most because of the amount that they have to learn and the all too frequent testing that they have to endure. Where I am, too many of the cleverer ones are self-harming or becoming crippled by anxiety, and this is not because they are lacking in resilience or part of a ‘snowflake generation’.They are simply getting overwhelmed by the new curriculum because they are well-motivated and conscientious.

It's also worth noting that in the subject I teach at 'A' level it is necessary to explore 54 topics in depth. But the terminal papers will only ask about 12 of them at most. Where's the sense in that?

Additionally, if any teacher fessed up to drug use either back then or now they would be out of the door very quickly. I suppose that it is a different matter if someone is working with children but it was Gove who once presided over a system where the professional standards are higher than those that he is being held to.

Johnson might be habitually mendacious and manifestly incompetent but Gove is ideologically driven in all the wrong ways and therefore utterly unsuitable for any kind of high office regardless of his past drug use.

The other day I was flicking through one of Hunter S Thompson's books at random and found that he had once written that giving the US electorate the option of voting for either Clinton or Bush was like making them choose between a Leech and a Gila Monster.

It's the same with this Tory leadership contest. It's a veritable bestiary that the Tory party has to choose from, a fucking freak show.

Is there any possibility of all of them losing?

In closing, I should just quickly point out that my loathing of the two characters I have singled out for special attention above does not make me a supporter of Corbyn by default or something like that. I'm just someone who wants to see the excesses of capitalism reined in a bit and rampant economic inequality in our society (the consequence of thirty odd years of neoliberal economics) reduced.
 
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Brown was elected unopposed, so he had no one to debate with.

In the 2010 general election, Brown participated in three leaders' debates, something Cameron denied Miliband and May denied Corbyn.

You really know nowt about owt.
You do embarrass yourself - do you not even read threads before jumping in with your generally irrelevant bollocks?

You say:

"In the 2010 general election, Brown participated in three leaders' debate...…"

Correct, spot on!!!!

That is what I and others are saying - in GEs debates are appropriate - in party leadership elections they are not

Through your lack of comprehension you actually prove the point I and others are making - did you intend to do that or were you just jumping in and being clumsy?
 
Crikey.
C'mon guys,were talking Boris effing Johnson being p.m here.
I understand all the Brexit partisanship but ffs.
Leave or remain this fella is a wrong un.
Understandable viewpoint

I do not think anyone on here is suggesting that he is a person of good character
 
Oh he would/will. How many of them are they? It’s maths. No deal won’t get through, his PR driven version of the current WA will

He’s lied to his wife and children, I don’t think he’ll think twice about Mogg, Francois etc

Also, I’m not a ‘remainer’ I’m someone that looks at what is in front of us and the reality is we are fucked. The least bad option is to leave, quietly and orderly

if it looks like a Remainer, posts like a Remainer...……;-)

Oh, sorry - of course - you voted Leave and then had an epiphany;-)
 
Here are the debates for the 2015 Labour Leadership contest on TV, radio and on the internet.

Debates

Television
Programme Date Moderator Channel Location

Newsnight Wednesday 17 June; 19.00 Laura Kuenssberg BBC Two

Victoria Derbyshire Show Monday 13 July; 09.15 Victoria Derbyshire BBC Two

Sunday Politics Sunday 19 July; 11.00 Andrew Neil BBC One

Labour Leadership Hustings
Tuesday 1 September; 15.30 Krishnan Guru-Murthy Channel 4 On Channel 4 News

Labour's Future: The Final Debate
Thursday 3 September; 19.00 Adam Boulton Sky News Sage 2, The Sage, Gateshead On Sky News' YouTube

Radio

Show Date Moderator Station Information

The Labour Leadership Debate
Wednesday 22 July; 19.00 Iain Dale LBC

5 Live Breakfast Tuesday 25 August; 08.30 Nicky Campbell BBC Radio 5 Live

Online

Show Date Moderator Panel Online provider Information

The future of Labour: meet the next leader
Thursday 27 August; 19:10 Hugh Muir Rafael Behr, John Harris and Anne Perkins The Guardian Live stream
..........................

You just pluck your posts out of your arse.
Aww - bless - that must have allowed you to go to bed all warm and cosy last night.

To be fair - I had forgotten about those debates - actually my interest level at the time was likely not at the level of salivation that yours probably was

So a tiny victory for you - well done, but FFS so what - Labour decided to have these on that occasion - and that determines that should be the way things forever more??

So let's be clear - IN MY OPINION - debates are appropriate for GEs and absolutely not for leadership elections.

Certainly not on this occasion - only 160,000 or so people will choose the leader of the Conservatives - are any of those on here?

This is just SKY and other media outlets promoting themselves

And the REAL reason posters on here are going on about it is nakedly obvious

In a perverse sense it could be seen as a form of 'untruth' that this is occurring on this thread

I suspect that for the majority (perhaps one or two exceptions) there is no real concern about 'political good practice' - it is about the who and the potential for Brexit to gain more support - Brexit infects all these threads
 
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So many things wrong with this post it’s difficult to know where to start. It’s just random words or an episode of Catchphrase.
So I will break it down for those that cannot read more than a few words at a time:

1. How many people voted to appoint Nicola Sturgeon?

Just provide a number in answer

2. How many TV debates did she 'win' - or even take part in before she secured that appointment?

Just provide a number in answer

3. After all these months of you guys wanting to keep the status quo - surely you should not want to see a change in the way things have been done for so long?

the meaning of Status quo is: "......the existing state of affairs, especially regarding social or political issues."

So it is used here in the context that you have been banging on for 3 years the UK to Remain in the existing state of affairs - i.e. in the EU and not to embrace change - so why, with regards to the Conservative party Leadership election, do you want change that now?

Was it really that hard to understand? - do you need pictures? perhaps someone can help with a suitable explanatory meme
 
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Do you know - I am not sure we ever did have 'fitter' people

Perhaps in this world if the internet etc. we just know more - perhaps all the PMs we had over generations had cupboards full of skeletons and would do what ever was needed to secure/stay in office
I wholly disagree. If a senior politician was previously caught lying it would mean resignation was inevitable and a return to the office they previously held (or its equivalency) would be difficult to attain, if not impossible. John Profumo being a case in point; he spent the rest of his days following his resignation seeking redemption via charitable pursuits.

I would agree that most PMs had skeletons (don't we all) and many of them had affairs (Lloyd George, Major) and some operated in a dishonest way after entering office (Blair, Cameron) but that isn't the point I am advancing, which you appear to have missed.

Even Blair and Cameron had an air of integrity and vitality associated with them when they assumed office, irrespective of what skeletons they may have harboured in their respective cupboards.

Johnson is widely regarded (possibly not by you) as an inveterate and opportunistic liar at the point he (presumably) attains that office. That is the seismic shift that causes me such sadness.

Nothing to do with Brexit, or the Tory party (my politics generally being ever so slightly right of centre, in any event) but rather that someone so manifestly lacking character, and widely regarded as such, will attain the office of Prime Minister. To the best of my knowledge, that has never happened before. A truly sad day for our nation, if and when it happens.

Perhaps you don't see it in those terms, which you are perfectly entitled to do.
 
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Stewart absolutely.

She wouldn’t have stood for the obvious sidestepping of the Irish border issue on Brexit and the false promises on gaining changes to the Withdrawal Agreement.

She’d want someone to tell it how it is and Stewart is the one doing so.
But before any of that - she would have absolutely not have been so stupid as to allow the EU to set the process of withdrawal, allow the UK's negotiations to be led by an unqualified and incompetent civil servant and sign up to a WA with an unfettered backstop
 
No he won't.
Repeat ad infinitum - a backstop with a time limit is not a backstop.
Mavis tried that.
And failed.
Next.
You have put your finger on it

There should indeed not be a backstop - it is profoundly damaging to the UK and will be so for generations - none on here should want that

So it is Remain - or leave without an unfettered backstop - which to some, such as yourself, means no Backstop at all - works for me
 

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