An Update (of sorts)...

[N-Word-Joe]

In reality though Hamsik isn't a bigger name than Lavezzi

why? because one is slovkian and one is from argentina? .... hamsik in slovakia is im sure as big of a name as lavezzi in argentina and in italy im sure hamsik is an even bigger name - especially to the napoli fans as he has been their jewel in their crown for the past 3 years

but im saying it could be kept under wraps as the president/napoli board know there would be a huge backlash from the fans for selling hamsik without looking like they are playing arsenel fabregas type hardball over any interest in him.

Essentially, yeah. I'm not talking about what I think is justified or not, I'm just talking about the way most of the world probably sees it. Ashley Young and Lee Chung-Yong are roughly equivalent in ability but guess who will be seen as the bigger name? Same thing really, that's just the way it works.

Anyway, for a totally different angle on this thread....what about Mancini 'doing a Vieira' with Stankovic? He can play both positions, has bags of experience which Mancini would value and the club (board, really) might want it to be a case of one expensive buy (Nasri) and one cheap experienced option.

yeah fair enough, i see your point mate, but under the conditions i was guessing at, it doesnt matter who is bigger in a home country/worldwide view, just who is the bigger name in the napoli and italian view .... fan backlash etc etc wanting to be avoided - but i completely agree with your view that a lot of closely talented players are separated by their country of origin.

and on your point - i dont really know, one hand, id like to see stankovic in a city shirt to help out the youngsters etc - but on the other - i cant see mancini wasting vital money (FFP) on a very old, slow midfielder with high wages just for that ... when we already have Barry. Yes barry is arguably the less talented of the 2 - but he is immensely experienced in our league, a model professional and younger so can play more games in a season - so i think having barry and saving our coffers for a younger attacking midfielder would be best :)<br /><br />-- Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:34 am --<br /><br />

Me too. It always seemed like a strange move. We have 3 top strikers in Aguero, Balo, Dzeko already. It's extremely rare to see a club with more than that. The 4th striker is usually a young talent (e.g. Bojan for Barca) or an experienced pro (e.g. Owen for United). In both cases, they have to be willing to spend most of the season on the bench. While you could in theory class Balo as 'young talent', I doubt he'd be happy playing only 15-20 games.

It seems bizarre to me that fellow posters aren't more concerned with our midfield options, and I'm very glad the board seem to have picked up on the problem (if Billy's info is correct). Teams that are successful in all competitions always have an absolute shedload of central midfielders. Take United, and compare to ours:

Man United: Anderson, Gibson, Carrick, Giggs, Park, Fletcher, Cleverley (looks good enough to step up), *looking to add to another*
City: De Jong, Yaya Toure, Barry, Milner, *looking to add Nasri*. (Some may say Silva but his game is suited to the position he plays now, as a drifting trequartista).

Now obviously Gibson and Anderson are fucking awful, and Carrick isn't much better. But the point is that they have strength in depth. Gibson, as terrible as he is, was able to slot into one of the central 3 spots against lower Prem teams last season, and so long as Park or Giggs were alongside him, they'd do fine.

We don't have the numbers to rotate. And it's a big problem. That period after Christmas where it all briefly went pear-shaped is, in my opinion, directly attributable to the injury De Jong suffered. Yaya and Barry were playing every 3 days and looked knackered; Vieira and Milner did ok, but tended to need someone better playing alongside them. Now we've lost Vieira, without replacing him. I repeat: it's a big problem.

That is the best post I have read in the Transfer Forum all Summer. My thoughts exactly. We all know we are in for a top class midfielder from somewhere such as Nasri or Sneijder but we need numbers in their too.

If we play a Top 4 on a Saturday, away in Champions League midweek it would be handy to have a "decent" Prem Midfield Player to come in for the next game at somewhere like Bolton or Norwich. Look how tired Yaya and Barry looked around the time of the Kiev games.

I was thinking of players such as Osman from Everton or Hitzelberger or any one of about 20 others. If we are talking another "Star" to go with what we have plus a Nasri then the Football world best watch out.

Thanks mate, good to see that someone else shares my concern!

-- Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:52 pm --

While that's true, Mancini would rarely countenance playing 3 forwards AND Silva (who, surely, must play if available) if last season is anything to go by. I can only remember a handful of games where that happened: Aris, Dynamo Kiev, Sunderland. I think I even remember him saying 'we won't do this often'.

Surely the far more likely scenario is two strikers (one acting as an inside forward, which Aguero and Balotelli can both do) and Silva drifting around, then the standard midfield 3 that we've come to expect from Mancini's teams.

That being the case, I don't think 4 established strikers is the way forward. Midfield is the problem area.

I can't disagree more. He didn't have the personnel last year to play attacking football. I think Sunderland is a perfect example of the type of football we will play this year.

If he sticks to the 4-2-3-1 that 3-1 is going to rip holes into defenses. I expect to see this type of lineup up for most games:

----de jong ------yaya-------

aguero-------silva-------mario

-------------dzeko----------

(Thanks to others regarding my earlier post too.)

I've seen this line-up a lot recently, and I don't like it at all. We've all been raving about Silva's form last season and in pre-season, and yet now everybody wants to move him to a more rigidly defined central position where he'll be forced to take on more defensive duties? It seems like madness.

Part of the reason why Silva has been such a revelation for us is that he's essentially been given a free role by Mancini. He drifts between the lines, pops up on the left and on the right, is sometimes the furthest up the pitch and sometimes alongside De Jong. He plays this role fantastically well, and he's able to do so because a) there's no real positional requirement on him and b) he can trust the midfield trio to hold the shape of the team. Why would you want to change that? Why would you want to tinker with the way that Silva is playing now, when he's so clearly revelling in his current position? I don't understand it.

The only way this formation could produce performances as good as the ones we've seen with Mancini's standard lineup (i.e. a classic central midfield 3) is if the inside forwards, Balotelli and Aguero, were willing to take a large share of the defensive burden. That would, I believe, give Silva the same freedom as he currently enjoys. But therein lies the problem. Balotelli and Aguero work reasonably hard down the flanks, but they can't defend. Playing Silva in that central role would require a 'defensive forward' in the mould of Milner, and United's Park, or Liverpool's Kuyt...which, of course, reduces the options in attack.

I strongly believe that the best formation for us this season is a 4-2-3-1/4-3-1-2 mix, with Silva as a free trequartista, Balotelli or Aguero as an inside forward, and Dzeko or Aguero on the last man. The 3 midfield spots need to be filled by others. At the very least, either a deep lying screener/playmaker or an attacking midfielder needs to be added to the squad. I am of the opinion that in fact, we need two more midfield signings. Vieira made 28 appearances last season, and we still looked short. I find that a convincing argument for strengthening in itself.

i think he was going for the ability of all 4 of those players to interchange their positions, which bobby seems very fond of, instead of them staying in these positions all game.

where silva moves to will then dictate where other players move, and yes, sometimes vice versa (as we arent a one man team) - but point still stands - i think this is the formation we should play - but the front 4 end up interchanging during the match, although some more than others (eg balo and dzeko change less than balo and silva). the only concern we would need is that we would be left a bit open if yaya goes for a burst, but i think thats where the idea of possession football comes into play.

 

[Neville Kneville]

That's no differemt to the formation we played all last season. Silva drifts in there all the time. He was right there when he played that pass to Dzeko. There's nothing rigid about it. The players can move around as much as they like so long as they keep it sensible & balanced & cover properly when we lose the ball. Aguero & Silva will move all over, as will Tevez if he plays.

 

[Mad 4 It]

Me too. It always seemed like a strange move. We have 3 top strikers in Aguero, Balo, Dzeko already. It's extremely rare to see a club with more than that. The 4th striker is usually a young talent (e.g. Bojan for Barca) or an experienced pro (e.g. Owen for United). In both cases, they have to be willing to spend most of the season on the bench. While you could in theory class Balo as 'young talent', I doubt he'd be happy playing only 15-20 games.

It seems bizarre to me that fellow posters aren't more concerned with our midfield options, and I'm very glad the board seem to have picked up on the problem (if Billy's info is correct). Teams that are successful in all competitions always have an absolute shedload of central midfielders. Take United, and compare to ours:

Man United: Anderson, Gibson, Carrick, Giggs, Park, Fletcher, Cleverley (looks good enough to step up), *looking to add to another*
City: De Jong, Yaya Toure, Barry, Milner, *looking to add Nasri*. (Some may say Silva but his game is suited to the position he plays now, as a drifting trequartista).

Now obviously Gibson and Anderson are fucking awful, and Carrick isn't much better. But the point is that they have strength in depth. Gibson, as terrible as he is, was able to slot into one of the central 3 spots against lower Prem teams last season, and so long as Park or Giggs were alongside him, they'd do fine.

We don't have the numbers to rotate. And it's a big problem. That period after Christmas where it all briefly went pear-shaped is, in my opinion, directly attributable to the injury De Jong suffered. Yaya and Barry were playing every 3 days and looked knackered; Vieira and Milner did ok, but tended to need someone better playing alongside them. Now we've lost Vieira, without replacing him. I repeat: it's a big problem.

That is the best post I have read in the Transfer Forum all Summer. My thoughts exactly. We all know we are in for a top class midfielder from somewhere such as Nasri or Sneijder but we need numbers in their too.

If we play a Top 4 on a Saturday, away in Champions League midweek it would be handy to have a "decent" Prem Midfield Player to come in for the next game at somewhere like Bolton or Norwich. Look how tired Yaya and Barry looked around the time of the Kiev games.

I was thinking of players such as Osman from Everton or Hitzelberger or any one of about 20 others. If we are talking another "Star" to go with what we have plus a Nasri then the Football world best watch out.

Thanks mate, good to see that someone else shares my concern!

-- Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:52 pm --

While that's true, Mancini would rarely countenance playing 3 forwards AND Silva (who, surely, must play if available) if last season is anything to go by. I can only remember a handful of games where that happened: Aris, Dynamo Kiev, Sunderland. I think I even remember him saying 'we won't do this often'.

Surely the far more likely scenario is two strikers (one acting as an inside forward, which Aguero and Balotelli can both do) and Silva drifting around, then the standard midfield 3 that we've come to expect from Mancini's teams.

That being the case, I don't think 4 established strikers is the way forward. Midfield is the problem area.

I can't disagree more. He didn't have the personnel last year to play attacking football. I think Sunderland is a perfect example of the type of football we will play this year.

If he sticks to the 4-2-3-1 that 3-1 is going to rip holes into defenses. I expect to see this type of lineup up for most games:

----de jong ------yaya-------

aguero-------silva-------mario

-------------dzeko----------

(Thanks to others regarding my earlier post too.)

I've seen this line-up a lot recently, and I don't like it at all. We've all been raving about Silva's form last season and in pre-season, and yet now everybody wants to move him to a more rigidly defined central position where he'll be forced to take on more defensive duties? It seems like madness.

Part of the reason why Silva has been such a revelation for us is that he's essentially been given a free role by Mancini. He drifts between the lines, pops up on the left and on the right, is sometimes the furthest up the pitch and sometimes alongside De Jong. He plays this role fantastically well, and he's able to do so because a) there's no real positional requirement on him and b) he can trust the midfield trio to hold the shape of the team. Why would you want to change that? Why would you want to tinker with the way that Silva is playing now, when he's so clearly revelling in his current position? I don't understand it.

The only way this formation could produce performances as good as the ones we've seen with Mancini's standard lineup (i.e. a classic central midfield 3) is if the inside forwards, Balotelli and Aguero, were willing to take a large share of the defensive burden. That would, I believe, give Silva the same freedom as he currently enjoys. But therein lies the problem. Balotelli and Aguero work reasonably hard down the flanks, but they can't defend. Playing Silva in that central role would require a 'defensive forward' in the mould of Milner, and United's Park, or Liverpool's Kuyt...which, of course, reduces the options in attack.

I strongly believe that the best formation for us this season is a 4-2-3-1/4-3-1-2 mix, with Silva as a free trequartista, Balotelli or Aguero as an inside forward, and Dzeko or Aguero on the last man. The 3 midfield spots need to be filled by others. At the very least, either a deep lying screener/playmaker or an attacking midfielder needs to be added to the squad. I am of the opinion that in fact, we need two more midfield signings. Vieira made 28 appearances last season, and we still looked short. I find that a convincing argument for strengthening in itself.

Javi Martinez is your man!

 

[southern muppet]

Javi Martinez signed a new contract earlier this summer.

 

[Taylor]

Javi Martinez signed a new contract earlier this summer.

New contract guarantees higher price. That is if he leaves of course.

 

[LongsightM13]

Javi Martinez signed a new contract earlier this summer.

New contract guarantees higher price. That is if he leaves of course.

He would be tailor-made for Barry's current position. A complete midfielder, he is everything we once hoped MJ would turn out to be. But he would be very, very expensive. And would probably be getting tapped up by Barca and Real after a season with us, Cesc-style

 

[without a dream]

I've had a feeling about Xavi all window, with Fabregas presumably finally ending up there and the emergence of Thiago I think Barca could cope with his loss. He's getting on a bit but he's never relied on pace and I don't think he's had major injury concerns so there'd be a good 4 years left in his legs I think. I rate Barry but Xavi would be the ideal player to take over his role in the team and would be a sensational signing. modric in that role would also transform our team it looks like Spurs are determined to keep him though.

 

[Anonymous]

L'Equipe this morning says that Arsenal have agreed to sell to City at 22 million euros. Good source.

Arsenal serait moins déterminé à conserver envers et contre tout Samir Nasri, chassé par Manchester City. La position d'Arsène Wenger, qui avait réaffirmé le 11 juillet que l'ancien Marseillais ne partirait pas, semble avoir évolué. Le risque d'un moindre investissement du milieu français aurait contribué à infléchir la position du patron sportif des Gunners. Le club de Londres a d'ailleurs peut-être trouvé son remplaçant avec l'espagnol de Valence Mata (23 ans).

 

[BlueMark]

L'Equipe this morning says that Arsenal have agreed to sell to City at 22 million euros. Good source.

Arsenal serait moins déterminé à conserver envers et contre tout Samir Nasri, chassé par Manchester City. La position d'Arsène Wenger, qui avait réaffirmé le 11 juillet que l'ancien Marseillais ne partirait pas, semble avoir évolué. Le risque d'un moindre investissement du milieu français aurait contribué à infléchir la position du patron sportif des Gunners. Le club de Londres a d'ailleurs peut-être trouvé son remplaçant avec l'espagnol de Valence Mata (23 ans).

Sounds good to me fella. Hope your well bud.

 

[alky313]

With Barca just 5 million pounds away from Cescs asking price I almost feel bad for Wenger. Afellay is as good as gone if someone can stump the wages. I can see Dippers, Spuds, Fulham contending. I just don't see the quality in their midfield whatsoever. Ramsey and Wilshere are just kids.