So if Johnson gets his way we have 14 months to agree a FTA.
If Parliament has any scrutiny then there is zero chance of that happening. If, God forbid, Johnson's Government are allowed unfettered to do what they want then maybe.
But the overwhelming odds are that there will be no FTA by Dec 2020.
Then we go through the whole extension, traitor, just get it done bullshit all over again.
No deal is still very much on the cards, the ERG nutters are banking on it.
Got them from that Tory supporting rag, the Daily Mirror.Should follow the French and Irish in abolishing zero hour contracts. The ‘right to request’ is meaningless.
The rest is largely fluff (not that I’m anti fluff). For example are there now legal aid provisions to allow an employee to take a firm to tribunal to demonstrate malice etc? Last time I checked it was not applicable and taking a firm to tribunal costs money and you can be made to pay the employers costs if you lose. If you can’t afford to take someone to a tribunal it makes little difference.
Are these the best bits or just ones you picked at random?
It didn't because Johnson pulled it. I wonder why? He and his camp are now saying/lying that they 'have the numbers' so we shall see how it pans out this week. He seems to be a little desperate to stop his deal getting the proper scrutiny though. Goodness knows why that would be.
His deal doesn't need scrutiny.
The detail level is of total irrelevance in all of this because has anyone honestly even bothered to read it and then make up their minds?
Have any remainers read the deal and thought you know what this might be a good compromise or it might not be? My guess is not a single one.
For people to say we should have a peoples vote 'armed with the facts' is just funny. Even the opposition rejecting this deal and proposing that peoples vote haven't read it!!
Scrutiny is therefore pointless, it would be better to just have another droning debate on whether we should leave at all.
A FTA massively benefits both sides and the EU won’t cut off their nose to spite their face.
It’s a race against time but there will be plenty of will on both sides to get one done.
The fact we’ve been aligned to them for 40 years will enhance our chances of doing it in time.
If only it were that simple.
The whole point of Brexit is not to be aligned.
If your version is correct and it's a relatively easy process as there is no great divergence then the Tory party will tear itself to shreds.
No, this will be far tougher.
This whole sorry mess started with Cameron attempting to deal with the far right fringe of his party. That fringe is has increased in size and is now largely running the party. They are not about to go soft on an easy FTA with the EU.
It's very good of you to explain the difference between posters in those terms, I agree if it means that on all subjects and at all times they are either apologists or bedwetters.That doesn't even have so much to do with Brexit. It's just that if you look at the average forum poppulation and behaviour there are a few distinctive mindsets that guide behaviour in discussion and there is a fairly hard clash here between the "partisan debaters" and the "hard core scrutinisers". All this though can be completly placed within the field of social/forum behaviour.
Very briefly explained:
-the "Partisan debaters"* are the type who champion a side of a view and believe that in argumentation wins and losses must almost be seen as points won during a match. This often observingly translates in stubborn and even haughty behaviour by some posters while to the other side their views often blatantly do not hold up to scrutiny.
-The "hard core scrutinisers"* do not perceive that a argument is a match between who's views are superior for points. Hard core scrutinisers do not put that much value in how much knowledge one holds at any point, rather they foremost believe a person must be primarily critical and self observing for the function of independantly being able to find truth. In that sense there is no shame to asking questions for the function of scrutiny whereas for a partisan debater asking such questions might appear as showing weakness.
Get the "team mentallity" out of the debate, and let everybody hold himself to propper scrutiny and the scientific method to finding truth, then this issue wouldn't exist even if people held different oppinions. The problem is not that we are devided in views, the problem is that there is a conflict between the "standards of truth", withought that issue we would simply be split along lines of complexity.
*(source: dictionary of the quackish people)
Brexit in a nutshell. What’s the point of understanding facts. Well said sir, at least you are honest.His deal doesn't need scrutiny.
The detail level is of total irrelevance in all of this because has anyone honestly even bothered to read it and then make up their minds?
Have any remainers read the deal and thought you know what this might be a good compromise or it might not be? My guess is not a single one.
For people to say we should have a peoples vote 'armed with the facts' is just funny. Even the opposition rejecting this deal and proposing that peoples vote haven't read it!!
Scrutiny is therefore pointless, it would be better to just have another droning debate on whether we should leave at all.
Maybe though a deal with the EU is not as high on the agenda for Johnson and Reece Mogg as signing a deal with the US? In which case are they that bothered about EU regulations workers rights?
If only it were that simple.
The whole point of Brexit is not to be aligned.
If your version is correct and it's a relatively easy process as there is no great divergence then the Tory party will tear itself to shreds.
No, this will be far tougher.
This whole sorry mess started with Cameron attempting to deal with the far right fringe of his party. That fringe is has increased in size and is now largely running the party. They are not about to go soft on an easy FTA with the EU.
A fringe voting for something does not result in a majority government.
Ask Jeremy Corbyn.
It’s not relatively easy at all and 12 months isn’t long at all but the fact we are aligned, having been for 40 years and the fact that both sides will be keen to agree a FTA, I’m confident one will be done.
They are no longer a fringe and if Johnson wins a GE they will have full control of the Tory party.
The moderates are being forced out to be replaced by loyal far right foot soldiers.
More in ‘its not a real border honest guv’
‘Steve Barclay confirms businesses will need to complete exit declarations on trade from Northern Ireland to Great Britain, correcting remarks earlier in Lords evidence session’ @MLex
I believe your confidence to be completely unfounded.
But time will, as ever, tell.
To be fair, I think the Lib Dems have acted quite honourably, in that they took a position and have stuck to it, irrespective of how unpopular it was. It's only more recently that their position has started to gain ground.The left/momentum have taken over the Labour party.
The Lib Dems go whichever way they think will win them a vote.
Welcome to politics in 2019 where there are no moderates, especially on brexit.
for 56 years of them I've been alive and kicking.. the rest of the time I was in the makingTories defending workers' rights? Where have you been for the last two centuries?
To be fair, I think the Lib Dems have acted quite honourably, in that they took a position and have stuck to it, irrespective of how unpopular it was. It's only more recently that their position has started to gain ground.
It is Labour who have acted like opportunistic tossers throughout. No surprises there.