Another new Brexit thread

[Vic]

Why is this being peddled by the opposition? Why will the PM or Govt consider destroying worker's rights? I just don't see it happening....

Tories defending workers' rights? Where have you been for the last two centuries?

 

[Chippy_boy]

Got to be revocation then otherwise Brexit will just go on and on. "Some people think it will be over - like childbirth. Just get it over with." Wait till the mewling, puking and dirty nappies start. And that's just Rees Mogg.

You think revoking A50 would be the end of it? My word how misguided.

 

[M18CTID]

Agreed. But I will also say this, what about employers' rights? All everyone talks about is workers' rights as if it's a one way street and anything we do which improves a worker's lot is necessarily good, and anything which takes away from it is necessarily bad.

But there are two sides to every coin. In some other countries it's virtually impossible to get rid of someone who turns out to be a complete tosser. In others, it's much more difficult to make people redundant. And guess what, such countries usually have much higher unemployment than we do, because employers are far less inclined to hire someone in the first place.

I am not suggesting erosion of workers' rights is a good thing, far from it. But there has to be a balance and this is never mentioned.

While I'm all for adequate worker rights, I'm of the opinion that employment rights in this country are massively skewed in favour of the employee, and someone can behave like an absolute twat at work, get sacked, and still find an angle for taking it to a tribunal. I've witnessed it in the firm I work at, where one bloke was sacked for gross misconduct for belting our works manager, yet he appealed and our company solicitor said he may have a chance of winning if it went all the way so an out-of-court settlement was reached. I'm not sure why he may have had a chance of winning such a case, particularly as it came 18 months or so after he twatted another worker and was given a final warning, but I think he played the mental illness card which muddied the waters somewhat.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Tories defending workers' rights? Where have you been for the last two centuries?

Where have you?

Did you miss the TORY government agreeing to implement 51 of the 53 recommendations in the Taylor report last year. Including:

• The formula to work out your holiday pay will be made fairer. Currently if you work variable hours - like in a shop in the Christmas sales - your holiday allowance is based on your hours in the previous 12 weeks. That'll be expanded to an average over 52 weeks and there'll be a new "campaign" to make workers aware.
  
  
• Zero-hour contract workers will get the "right to request" a more "predictable and stable" set of hours - though this doesn't mean it will be guaranteed. And zero-hour contracts will not be wiped out.
  
  
• You'll be considered a 'continuous' worker - with more rights - even if your service is broken by up to four weeks. Currently it's just one week.
  
  
• A loophole that lets firms hire agency workers on lower wages than staff is being closed. The 'Swedish derogation' will be repealed in the UK - stopping firms holding workers on long-term contracts but with periods of little to no work.
  
  
• Workers will get a 'written statement' of their rights on day one. Currently it's only available to full employees (not agency staff) after two months. This includes sick leave and maternity or paternity leave.
  
  
• Firms that have shown 'malice, spite or gross oversight' in an employment tribunal can be fined £20,000 - quadruple the current rate. And those that don't pay tribunal awards on time will be named and shamed.
  
  
• It'll be easier for you to demand an "information and consultation" regime from bosses. Right now 10% of the workforce have to request it - now it'll be 2%. The minimum will still be 15 employees though.
  
  
• Firms that don't give holiday pay properly will face a crackdown. A new enforcement body will target firms not doing their bit in the same way as firms are targeted for not paying minimum wage.

Bad, naughty Tories.

 

[mcfc1632]

What the fuck is wrong with you. Yes i asked questions, because i hoped people would explain to me, not to receive completly unnesecary arrogant haughty remarks about how i am not informed about decade's of speakers about Bercow. DUH. I'm allowed to not be all knowing and ask questions. I asked other questions to you and you didn't answer those, but you did write a long post to emphasise that there was something i don't know and that hence i should feel ashamed for it? What sort of rediculous childish beghaviour is that? Just a enourmesly rediculous thing for you to write a reply of that lenght just to not answer the question but remark "i wont waste my time with you" while actually ironicly replying

And i have to say, for me this was youre final chance, from now on youre on my ignore list. It's not because i have something against you, it's just that it's absolutly worthless and a complete waste of time to debate with you and i'm tired to see youre posts clutter the thread as if it should invite to post to that nonesense. I neither expect you to see "the light" if i explain it to you, youre stubborn AF and arrogant at it.

Read your reply to my earlier post from my POV and ask yourself why I should bother replying to you - it was full of insults and contempt - and not for the first time

I have barely skim read this one - but it seems the same

Top tip - you want to ask questions and learn from the answers then don't act such a prat

That advice may help you in dealing with others - but not me I am afraid as I have you categorised as someone that is too supercilious to be worth bothering with

 

[BobKowalski]

There wont be a FTA ... as the Tories have removed the commitment to a level playing field from the legally binding section of the WA

Yeah but that doesn’t mean it can’t reappear in a future trade deal. Ruling it out of the WA just rules out a future Govt having to include it.

If we want to retain access to Europe not just on goods but on services and joint recognition of qualifications and everything else that allows us to smoothly interact with the richest trade bloc 22 miles away, and which is also running trade policy for one of the Home nations, we are going to except level playing field provisions simply because we will have no choice. In all our recent negotiations with the EU we start off talking big and walking away with not very much. This will be no different.

 

[Vic]

For every Amber Rudd who is anti Boris and very much for promoting herself as a future Tory leader there is a Mervyn King who says brexit wont cause huge damage.

What a true but silly comment. For every Rudd there are 99% of economists agreeing with her.

 

[Vic]

You think revoking A50 would be the end of it? My word how misguided.

It will end uncertainty. Brexit would never come back no matter what squeals.

 

[blueinsa]

What a true but silly comment. For every Rudd there are 99% of economists agreeing with her.

99%?

Ok Vic and economists.......not much better at long term forecasting than a toss of a coin.

Hide behind them as much as you want, it aint changing the fact we are leaving the EU.

 

[M18CTID]

Where have you?

Did you miss the TORY government agreeing to implement 51 of the 53 recommendations in the Taylor report last year. Including:

• The formula to work out your holiday pay will be made fairer. Currently if you work variable hours - like in a shop in the Christmas sales - your holiday allowance is based on your hours in the previous 12 weeks. That'll be expanded to an average over 52 weeks and there'll be a new "campaign" to make workers aware. But
  
  
• Zero-hour contract workers will get the "right to request" a more "predictable and stable" set of hours - though this doesn't mean it will be guaranteed. And zero-hour contracts will not be wiped out.
  
  
• You'll be considered a 'continuous' worker - with more rights - even if your service is broken by up to four weeks. Currently it's just one week.
  
  
• A loophole that lets firms hire agency workers on lower wages than staff is being closed. The 'Swedish derogation' will be repealed in the UK - stopping firms holding workers on long-term contracts but with periods of little to no work.
  
  
• Workers will get a 'written statement' of their rights on day one. Currently it's only available to full employees (not agency staff) after two months. This includes sick leave and maternity or paternity leave.
  
  
• Firms that have shown 'malice, spite or gross oversight' in an employment tribunal can be fined £20,000 - quadruple the current rate. And those that don't pay tribunal awards on time will be named and shamed.
  
  
• It'll be easier for you to demand an "information and consultation" regime from bosses. Right now 10% of the workforce have to request it - now it'll be 2%. The minimum will still be 15 employees though.
  
  
• Firms that don't give holiday pay properly will face a crackdown. A new enforcement body will target firms not doing their bit in the same way as firms are targeted for not paying minimum wage.

Bad, naughty Tories.

Good luck getting the Tory-haters to respond to that

 

[M18CTID]

It will end uncertainty. Brexit would never come back no matter what squeals.

And you think everything will be hunky-dory dandy and it will heal all the rifts? Keep taking the tablets mate

 

[west didsblue]

Read your reply to my earlier post from my POV and ask yourself why I should bother replying to you - it was full of insults and contempt - and not for the first time

I have barely skim read this one - but it seems the same

Top tip - you want to ask questions and learn from the answers then don't act such a pratt

That advice may help you in dealing with others - but not me I am afraid as I have you categorised as someone that is too supercilious to be worth bothering with

Prat

 

[blueinsa]

Where have you?

Did you miss the TORY government agreeing to implement 51 of the 53 recommendations in the Taylor report last year. Including:

• The formula to work out your holiday pay will be made fairer. Currently if you work variable hours - like in a shop in the Christmas sales - your holiday allowance is based on your hours in the previous 12 weeks. That'll be expanded to an average over 52 weeks and there'll be a new "campaign" to make workers aware. But
  
  
• Zero-hour contract workers will get the "right to request" a more "predictable and stable" set of hours - though this doesn't mean it will be guaranteed. And zero-hour contracts will not be wiped out.
  
  
• You'll be considered a 'continuous' worker - with more rights - even if your service is broken by up to four weeks. Currently it's just one week.
  
  
• A loophole that lets firms hire agency workers on lower wages than staff is being closed. The 'Swedish derogation' will be repealed in the UK - stopping firms holding workers on long-term contracts but with periods of little to no work.
  
  
• Workers will get a 'written statement' of their rights on day one. Currently it's only available to full employees (not agency staff) after two months. This includes sick leave and maternity or paternity leave.
  
  
• Firms that have shown 'malice, spite or gross oversight' in an employment tribunal can be fined £20,000 - quadruple the current rate. And those that don't pay tribunal awards on time will be named and shamed.
  
  
• It'll be easier for you to demand an "information and consultation" regime from bosses. Right now 10% of the workforce have to request it - now it'll be 2%. The minimum will still be 15 employees though.
  
  
• Firms that don't give holiday pay properly will face a crackdown. A new enforcement body will target firms not doing their bit in the same way as firms are targeted for not paying minimum wage.

Bad, naughty Tories.

yeah...but...we are all going back up chimneys...honestly.

 

[Ban-jani]

There wont be a FTA ... as the Tories have removed the commitment to a level playing field from the legally binding section of the WA

Does that mean there can’t be a FTA? The only basis of the WA is for their to then be a FTA, both sides have mentioned it.

 

[west didsblue]

Does that mean there can’t be a FTA? The only basis of the WA is for their to then be a FTA, both sides have mentioned it.

The FTA can only be limited to areas where there is a level playing field so it would be likely to be limited in scope if we deviate too much from EU standards and regulations.

 

[inbetween]

Does that mean there can’t be a FTA? The only basis of the WA is for their to then be a FTA, both sides have mentioned it.

Canada and more recently Japan have negotiated FTA's with the EU. There is no reasonable requirement to be in political union or have any treaty for there to be an FTA.

To us we just want what we have now, for the EU it is of far greater importance to weaponise the issue because the UK is and will become a competitor 30 miles from European shores.

The issue with an FTA for us is the EU will not engage on an FTA until we are leaving by WA or have left (with no deal).

The same applies to our own trade deals with other countries. We are prohibited from even talking to other countries until we get past the WA or obviously leave with no deal.

 

[Ban-jani]

The FTA can only be limited to areas where there is a level playing field so it would be likely to be limited in scope if we deviate too much from EU standards and regulations.

This is a good thing as it will force any government to protect regulations and workers rights.

Despite him being a lying ****, Johnson won’t want a recession or the economy to slow generally, more than it needs to.

Not to forget he is actually a remainer.

 

[BobKowalski]

Where have you?

Did you miss the TORY government agreeing to implement 51 of the 53 recommendations in the Taylor report last year. Including:

• The formula to work out your holiday pay will be made fairer. Currently if you work variable hours - like in a shop in the Christmas sales - your holiday allowance is based on your hours in the previous 12 weeks. That'll be expanded to an average over 52 weeks and there'll be a new "campaign" to make workers aware.
  
  
• Zero-hour contract workers will get the "right to request" a more "predictable and stable" set of hours - though this doesn't mean it will be guaranteed. And zero-hour contracts will not be wiped out.
  
  
• You'll be considered a 'continuous' worker - with more rights - even if your service is broken by up to four weeks. Currently it's just one week.
  
  
• A loophole that lets firms hire agency workers on lower wages than staff is being closed. The 'Swedish derogation' will be repealed in the UK - stopping firms holding workers on long-term contracts but with periods of little to no work.
  
  
• Workers will get a 'written statement' of their rights on day one. Currently it's only available to full employees (not agency staff) after two months. This includes sick leave and maternity or paternity leave.
  
  
• Firms that have shown 'malice, spite or gross oversight' in an employment tribunal can be fined £20,000 - quadruple the current rate. And those that don't pay tribunal awards on time will be named and shamed.
  
  
• It'll be easier for you to demand an "information and consultation" regime from bosses. Right now 10% of the workforce have to request it - now it'll be 2%. The minimum will still be 15 employees though.
  
  
• Firms that don't give holiday pay properly will face a crackdown. A new enforcement body will target firms not doing their bit in the same way as firms are targeted for not paying minimum wage.

Bad, naughty Tories.

Should follow the French and Irish in abolishing zero hour contracts. The ‘right to request’ is meaningless.

The rest is largely fluff (not that I’m anti fluff). For example are there now legal aid provisions to allow an employee to take a firm to tribunal to demonstrate malice etc? Last time I checked it was not applicable and taking a firm to tribunal costs money and you can be made to pay the employers costs if you lose. If you can’t afford to take someone to a tribunal it makes little difference.

Are these the best bits or just ones you picked at random?

 

[dave_blue12]

So if Johnson gets his way we have 14 months to agree a FTA.

If Parliament has any scrutiny then there is zero chance of that happening. If, God forbid, Johnson's Government are allowed unfettered to do what they want then maybe.

But the overwhelming odds are that there will be no FTA by Dec 2020.

Then we go through the whole extension, traitor, just get it done bullshit all over again.

No deal is still very much on the cards, the ERG nutters are banking on it.

 

[Hesperus]

This is a good thing as it will force any government to protect regulations and workers rights.

Despite him being a lying ****, Johnson won’t want a recession or the economy to slow generally, more than it needs to.

Not to forget he is actually a remainer.

Maybe though a deal with the EU is not as high on the agenda for Johnson and Reece Mogg as signing a deal with the US? In which case are they that bothered about EU regulations workers rights?