Another new Brexit thread

[blueinsa]

"Leaving ( the EU) always meant leaving the CU" is incorrect from a legal point of view (example Turkey) and from what was said ( or not said) in the 2016 referendum campaign. Govt. official stance was that remaining in the CU was an option. CU was hardly ever mentioned in the debate.
It doesn't matter now because remaining in the CU isn't going to happen.
Simply correcting your post about what leaving "ALWAYS" meant.

EU ref campaign......"dont vote to leave because it means we will leave the SM and the CU"

Country votes to leave.

Next 3 years........"no one said it meant leaving the SM and CU, no one"

 

[blue_paul]

Indeed we do.

Rejoining will look the better option in themedium term. I still can’t get to grips with why this is happening, it’s utter madness. The damage that ‘leaving’ in itself will cause in the immediacy will be dwarfed by longer term loss, economic and cultural.

 

[west didsblue]

Rejoining will look the better option in themedium term. I still can’t get to grips with why this is happening, it’s utter madness. The damage that ‘leaving’ in itself will cause in the immediacy will be dwarfed by longer term loss, economic and cultural.

I’ve said all along that this is likely to ultimately bring about closer European integration than if we remained. I don’t think there will be an immediate impact but eventually it will become clear that inward investment will be down and growth will be lower than it otherwise would have been. Eventually a future government will probably re-apply for EU membership and we’ll end up back in without our opt outs. As someone who values the UK’s current freedom to act independently when it comes to monetary policy, it will be a sad day if it happens but ironically Brexit is quite likely to ultimately bring it about.

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

We have to all do our utmost to make it work, Government and citizens alike. If we don’t, our status as a nation will be irreversibly diminished imo. Rejoining on our knees will not be a good look.

Really don't understand this type of comment. What on earth am I supposed to do as a regular citizen? I literally have no bearing on our countries future

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Really don't understand this type of comment. What on earth am I supposed to do as a regular citizen? I literally have no bearing on our countries future

I bet you really get behind the team on match days.

With that attitude, I’m not surprised you share that view about your level of input. I believe we can all play our part, however small. The same was true in 1939.

 

[blue_paul]

I’ve said all along that this is likely to ultimately bring about closer European integration than if we remained. I don’t think there will be an immediate impact but eventually it will become clear that inward investment will be down and growth will be lower than it otherwise would have been. Eventually a future government will probably re-apply for EU membership and we’ll end up back in without our opt outs. As someone who values the UK’s current freedom to act independently when it comes to monetary policy, it will be a sad day if it happens but ironically Brexit is quite likely to ultimately bring it about.

Good post.
Yes, I think the political chaos that Brexit has brought about will make other electorates very wary of contemplating leaving the EU. There’ll always be euroscepticism but even the likes of Le Pen doesn’t advocate leaving anymore and the Greeks pulled back from leaving when getting out of the euro looked a more feasible option for them.
I’m Irish so the UK leaving is very bad for some of our sectors, especially agriculture, and then there’s the political consequences of either land or sea borders on or off the Island.
I always thought Britain had it just about right in terms of their relationship with the EU. Part of the project but sceptical about various parts of further integration. Ultimately though it’s a successful trading block and Britain was all the better for being involved. I’m yet to see a compelling reason for leaving even with the problems that the EU has.
The whole Brexit project seems to have woken an English nativism too that I never thought you’d see after living in the UK in the late90’s/early 00’s. People voting against their economic interests and along cultural lines is what we see with southern republicans in the US and I hope it’s not a long term trending the UK.
A healthy and vibrant England is good for her citizens but also her neighbours and I just can’t see how that will be further enhanced by leaving such a powerful trading block abc that feed on if movement for all of us that gave us.

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

I bet you really get behind the team on match days.

With that attitude, I’m not surprised you share that view about your level of input. I believe we can all play our part, however small. The same was true in 1939.

Sorry mate but that makes no sense. I'm not there in parliament cheering them on when they pass through legislation am I?

All I can do is simply watch what happens and accept it, I wanted to remain because I genuinely believe that was the best for the future of our country. I hope it's a success but I'm not going to bury my head in the sand to the inevitable consequences of leaving

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Sorry mate but that makes no sense. I'm not there in parliament cheering them on when they pass through legislation am I?

I’m genuinely sorry if it makes no sense to you and that you feel you have no input to make to wider society.

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

I’m genuinely sorry if it makes no sense to you and that you feel you have no input to make to wider society.

All I can do is carry on doing what I'm doing mate, be a law abiding citizen, pay my taxes and just try to be a good person. If you're asking me to become a brexiteer then you're going to be disappointed

 

[Ban-jani]

All I can do is carry on doing what I'm doing mate, be a law abiding citizen, pay my taxes and just try to be a good person. If you're asking me to become a brexiteer then you're going to be disappointed

He’s not.

I’m a remainer and think Brexit was a bad idea but the success of the UK is one of my priorities in life and making this country better is.

I believe that as long as I have this attitude, I speak up and I set an example through behaviour, both with peers and with any future children, the country is improved, if only slightly.

We may lose out economically, almost certainly in fact, but the country will be more ours to shape and our views do matter. Heck, Johnson became a Brexiteer and moulded his entire campaign to getting it done, because he knew what the public felt.

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

He’s not.

I’m a remainer and think Brexit was a bad idea but the success of the UK is one of my priorities in life and making this country better is.

I believe that as long as I have this attitude, I speak up and I set an example through behaviour, both with peers and with any future children, the country is improved, if only slightly.

We may lose out economically, almost certainly in fact, but the country will be more ours to shape and our views do matter. Heck, Johnson became a Brexiteer and moulded his entire campaign to getting it done, because he knew what the public felt.

Trying to use Johnson as something I should aspire too when in fact I'd consider myself the opposite of him, he's not an idiot and most likely full well knows we will lose out post brexit.

He's a career opportunist plain and simple

 

[Ban-jani]

Trying to use Johnson as something I should aspire too when in fact I'd consider myself the opposite of him, he's not an idiot and most likely full well knows we will lose out post brexit.

He's a career opportunist plain and simple

You’ve completely misunderstood what I’ve said.

You may think you can make no difference but you can. Behave in the way you feel is best, set an example and you might just manage to inspire others or convince them.

The public is made up of individuals but are a great source of directing politicians when a view is shared by the majority.

This isn’t Johnson specially, generally politicians are willing to mould themselves, somewhat, to get elected.

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

You’ve completely misunderstood what I’ve said.

You may think you can make no difference but you can. Behave in the way you feel is best, set an example and you might just manage to inspire others or convince them.

The public is made up of individuals but are a great source of directing politicians when a view is shared by the majority.

So do what I said in my other comment then, be a law abiding citizen, pay my taxes and try to be a decent person.
That's all I can do bud

 

[Ban-jani]

So do what I said in my other comment then, be a law abiding citizen, pay my taxes and try to be a decent person.
That's all I can do bud

Exactly... and try and inspire by doing so.

You and I can improve the country, if ever so slightly, just by being decent and being us.

70m people make the UK what it is, alongside our institutions and language , and we’re apart of that.

If enough start to share your views then the leading politicians will succumb to that, to get into power.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Exactly... and try and inspire by doing so.

You and I can improve the country, if ever so slightly, just by being decent and being us.

70m people make the UK what it is, alongside our institutions and language , and we’re apart of that.

If enough start to share your views then the leading politicians will succumb to that, to get into power.

Well said mate. I find it really depressing and very insulting that people like me (and especially me) is regarded as a **** for being a Tory. I happen to think I'm an OK and caring chap who most people would happily share a pint with. I give plenty to charity, and am honest and decent. I'm the guy who corrects the shop assistant when they give you too much change. The guy who goes into the adjacent market to buy a pie for the man begging outside TK Max in Cardiff. This year we decided to do without Xmas presents and give all the money to the Salvation Army instead. But no, I'm a Tory so I am a **** apparently.

Anyway, Merry Christmas everyone. I hope 2020 brings a better year for all of us.

 

[Len Rum]

Really don't understand this type of comment. What on earth am I supposed to do as a regular citizen? I literally have no bearing on our countries future

With that attitude, I’m not surprised you share that view about your level of input. I believe we can all play our part, however small. The same was true in 1939.

Bloody hell mate you really have gone full hard on now.
PS The Government also has it's part to play.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Because it wasn’t clear to them. This is because people on the hard left usually suffer from a complete absence of political empathy that borders on the sociopathic; assuming their views are the only ones with any legitimacy and conspicuously failing to appreciate how anyone can hold different views. This is manifestly arrogant. This is also a form of mental disorder that has twice translated into electing leaders (Foot, Corbyn) who enable right-wing governments. This mental disorder is accentuated by the echo-chamber that they inhabit, interacting as they frequently do, pretty much exclusively with others who share their Weltanschauung.

So I’ll happily rephrase my statement:

“It was clearly never going to happen to anyone not suffering from a mental disorder”

So true:

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

Exactly... and try and inspire by doing so.

You and I can improve the country, if ever so slightly, just by being decent and being us.

70m people make the UK what it is, alongside our institutions and language , and we’re apart of that.

If enough start to share your views then the leading politicians will succumb to that, to get into power.

Yeah I'm already doing that, our country is going down the crapper though and no hand holding singing kumbaya is going to change that.

Things are in a state right now and are only going to get worse, people might not wanna hear it because it's depressing but it's the truth.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Bloody hell mate you really have gone full hard on now.
PS The Government also has it's part to play.

Of course it does, the biggest role of all. Not sure what your other comment is aimed at.

 

[Len Rum]

Of course it does, the biggest role of all. Not sure what your other comment is aimed at.

It was hard on Brexit. No reference to your sexual prowess intended.
As regards everyone having a part to play , I will only play my part if the Government gets the best deal possible, having regard to the promises made in the referendum campaign - 'no worse off' being one.
If no deal is the outcome then playing a part may extend to helping individuals but certainly not otherwise actively supporting the government in any way.