Another new Brexit thread

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Nothing to stop any country leaving. Any country can leave when they want but i''t then up to that country to work out a relationship with Europe that works for them. Can't expect the EU to work it out for them. If I leave my gym I have to find my own alternative don't expect my gym to let me use their equipment or work out how I get my exercise for me, at the inconvenience of the other members.

We just need to change from paying annual membership to the odd day pass when we fancy a workout ;-)

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

We just need to change from paying annual membership to the odd day pass when we fancy a workout ;-)

I have heard that this gym does allow people to use its equipment and not be members of it

My mates Japan and Canada told me they can use it but they aren’t members

 

[BobKowalski]

I have heard that this gym does allow people to use its equipment and not be members of it

My mates Japan and Canada told me they can use it but they aren’t members

Norway have full gym privileges but have no say in how the gym is ran.

I hate gym analogies.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Norway have full gym privileges but have no say in how the gym is ran.

I hate gym analogies.

I hate gyms

 

[mcfc1632]

Why are we facing a No Deal exit from the EU? You can't say June 2016 is "gone" and yet claim there is a mandate for No Deal based on June 2016. If it's gone, it's gone, and we have a new starting point. If everyone agrees on that, we can dismiss the entire "will of the people" crap.

Hmm - did not say that June 2016 has gone - I said May 2016 has gone - the days when we were firmly in the EU and expected to stay there

The vote and events since have changed that and there is no simple reset option - that was clear from my post, but you only read what you want to read

No Deal is simply an outcome of negotiations for the UK to have concluded without a deal - there was and is certainly a mandate for the UK leave the EU and if no deal is agreed then we leave without one

It really is not rocket science

 

[mcfc1632]

I haven't a single bloody clue what you are talking about. I'm not entirely sure I want to know either.

Cool

Thought it was not difficult to discern

 

[mcfc1632]

mcfc1632 said: ↑
Possibly the first time I have disagreed with you on here

I think that he is that self-serving and wedded to the EU coattails he will simply play his role as directed


I think the difference with Varadkar's stance is that you would find he has the support of the vast majority of the country.
Certainly more than 52%

I am in full agreement with you on that

Does not change what I said though

 

[Metal Biker]

I have heard that this gym does allow people to use its equipment and not be members of it

My mates Japan and Canada told me they can use it but they aren’t members

And they didn't pay for most of the equipment, either.

 

[mcfc1632]

Before that gains traction, it was ironic...

This is about Priti Patel and using food shortages in Ireland as a negotiating lever.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/tory-mp-threatens-ireland-with-brexit-food-shortages-890762.html

.

Thanks - knew it would be something related to a UK minister - but just returning from 4 weeks of not seeing the news

 

[MillionMilesAway]

I hate gyms

Whitley, Tolmie, Melrose?

 

[mcfc1632]

I would have let this go as most of it is sound (though with no mention of why Stormont is not meeting).

But seeing the likes makes me wonder if Brexiters really would want NI to have a proper political voice of its own. That voice would be firmly against Brexit.

Well TBF they did have a voice in June 2016

Like Scotland - after we leave the EU - if they want to consider their future position then of course they should exercise self-determination.

Seems all very democratic - perhaps the English might be allowed a say in deciding their future - do you agree?

 

[mcfc1632]

And as for ‘ I would have let this go’ do me a favour who do you think you are my mum?

You need to learn your place

There are some Remain 'super posters' - well at least they seem to consider themselves as such - afraid you are not in the club mate;-)

 

[mcfc1632]

But really Brexiteers are not respecting the GFA if they go no deal, and it must be noted that the chief red line preventing a deal to go trough was the NI problem. It's intellectually dishonest to reject all sollutions that could allow for the GFA to be respected and then argue that the other is at fault for not making all sorts of concessions that would make one support a sollution that does respect it. The Brexiteers are weaponising the GFA as to try to extort the EU imho, and then try to pass the blame. Tell me what other sollution is there other than the backstop which the UK rejected?

Brexiteers are weaponising the GFA!!!!

Sorry that is just myopic nonsense IMO

The GFA came forward in a different era when different circumstances prevailed

We now have a new situation and accommodations/changes need to be made

Should the UK have to be shackled to the EU forevermore - just because of the GFA

If the EU had not weaponised the GFA, supported by Varadkhar as he courts populism - I expect the UK and Ireland could have reached an accord without dramas

 

[mcfc1632]

Which wasn't the point at all, but I think you knew that.

It's not the border that's the problem. It's the agreement in the GFA about what happens at the border.

You appeared to say that the EU should have considered the GFA (1989) when admitting Ireland (1973). I think that's the wrong way round (at best) - it's nothing to do with the EEC/EU whatever; it's more that the GFA was written without considering an option that the countries weren't in the same trade bloc.

But he did indeed make an excellent point.

It would be an obvious argument to make that the EU - when bringing forward the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties - absolutely should have considered the issue of borders should a member leave and established a protocol/solution in the event of such an occurrence. It is important to note that the GFA was established before both those treaties.

This problem would not exist now had they done so.

That they did not make such consideration speaks volumes of the arrogance of the ideologues

Therefore there is a clear argument that the fault here lies with EU and their development of both treaties was undertaken with utter disregard for the GFA and they are wholly to blame for establishing a situation that has inherent disregard for the GFA

 

[mcfc1632]

The best way to manage a head on crash in your car is to put your brakes on and turn your steering wheel, not fit a higher performance airbag, even if 3 of the 5 people in the car want to carry on with the head on collision.

I did say - if we are committed to leave - you hate the whole idea and are therefore, IMO, not really positioned to give a worthwhile reply to the point I make

 

[mcfc1632]

The problem with planning for no deal is that a lot of the planning rests on what outside parties will or won’t do. Will the French insist on every form being filled in and every box being checked from one minute past midnight or one hour or one day or one week? Will the EU insist that we use non EU pallets to transport/store goods given we are not an EU country? If the French cut up will we divert to Holland and what if they then put on the squeeze?

How do you plan for scenarios that are not within your control? How do you mitigate the consequences when you can do nothing to mitigate them? How do you mitigate finding yourself as the ‘hostile’ actor surrounded by 27 antagonistic countries one of whom you share a contentious land border with and another who controls a key supply ‘choke’ point? How does a minority Govt with no popular mandate cope with the legal and political challenges to it posed by the devolved Govts of Scotland and Wales? Does the British State have the capacity to cope with any systematic breakdowns given that ten years of austerity have seriously eroded its capacity to act? Local Govt is cash strapped. Police numbers have been slashed. The Justice service can barely cope. The Prison service ditto.

And these are just the brief highlights. You really think we can ‘plan’ a no deal scenario that isn’t much more than converting an airfield into a lorry park and rolling out a leaflet campaign advising the public and business not to panic?

Putting forward a bunch of issues is a bit of a cop out IMO.

What I know is that what you can do is get all appropriate government departments to bring forward planning for all things that they can envisage

 

[BobKowalski]

Putting forward a bunch of issues is a bit of a cop out IMO.

Absolutely. Makes much more sense to ignore the issues that confront us and wait for them to happen and totally bite us in the arse. That’s the bulldog spirit Boris is after by golly gosh.

 

[BobKowalski]

We will not negotiate with these people until they cede to our demands!

https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardelli/johnson-meeting-merkel-macron-brexit

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

We will not negotiate with these people until they cede to our demands!

https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardelli/johnson-meeting-merkel-macron-brexit

Why is he just meeting france and Germany I thought 27 countries all have to agree and have equal say.

 

[smudgedj]

Why is he just meeting france and Germany I thought 27 countries all have to agree and have equal say.

Think it’s ‘BuzzFeed News has learned’ that the G7 summit is next week.