Boring. There's another.
You got it wrong over treaty dates and you're still moaning that people point out when you're wrong. Of course you're entitled to your opinion, it's the crap "facts" that are the problem.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Another new Brexit thread
- Thread starter Ric
- Start date
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
You got it wrong over treaty dates and you're still moaning that people point out when you're wrong. Of course you're entitled to your opinion, it's the crap "facts" that are the problem.
We're trying very hard (to be respectful) but it ain't easy.To be fair,this incarnation of this Brexit thread has generally been more respectful.
No one has changed their position though ;)
west didsblue
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 2 Oct 2011
- Messages
- 34,058
One person certainly was.I don't think anyone is suggesting the (at the time) non existent GFA should be taken into account.
He can’t even bring himself to admit he was totally wrong.
I’ve never tried to belittle ‘leavers’.
TBF to you - you generally do not - but there is a lot of it going on and the reply to your post is valid because it would have been based on that general attitude and of also course because on this one occasion you did.
You may get that experience in other aspects of your life - on here it is certainly far more 'one-way' IMOWhilst I don’t disagree with you, your last paragraph should also acknowledge that it’s also changed from “I disagree with your view”, to “you’re a traitorous, unpatriotic, anti democratic Quisling loser who should stfu” which is obviously much better.....
Where we are is actually at the end of a long 3 years during which any prospect of 'resetting' and forgetting it all has goneOK. But you did say about adopting a starting point of where we are now. That starting point now is that Brexit is crap, based on false promises of a deal (and no mention of leaving with No Deal), and about the only argument left for it is based on an opinion of when the sunlit uplands arrive. You're guessing - and that is not rocket science.
No Deal is not "simply" an outcome of negotiations. It is an abrogation of everything everyone in every Leave campaign said about the future relationship with the EU. "No Deal is better than a Deal" was never true, but it was never said before June 2016.
Companies planning to move their operations will likely still do so and in general the 'downside' is baked into the economy - we might as well leave and get on with seeking the upward path as this continued uncertainty is only going to keep us on a downward spiral
You are stuck in the campaign period of over 3 years ago and your nearly every post screams this and has shades of 'its not fair' - its not what they promised'
You seem to like being stuck in the campaign - I gues it is a safe place to be
west didsblue
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 2 Oct 2011
- Messages
- 34,058
There’s also a tendency for some Leavers to whine about Remainers instead of recognising when they’ve been proven wrong.
indeed - informative article - thanks @robbieh for bringing it to the threads attentionsThat’s a great article; Many thanks for pointing it out.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/08/16/from-peterloo-to-brexit-anniversary-200/
This statement rings true:
"Unlike the marchers of 1819, people today have the right to vote; but like the marchers of 1819, they’re ignored, blanked, disenfranchised. For the right to vote becomes meaningless if our votes are not properly acted on, if they do not result in the political change that the masses – the largest political mass in UK history in the case of Brexit – demanded."
Hey - I was in an airport lounge sipping (slurping) wine and whiling away time - I made a cock-upOh dear
Maastricht signed 1992, effective 1993
GFA signed 1998, effective 1999
The EC members should absolutely have seen 7 years into the future when they drafted the Maastricht treaty in 1991. Another thing to blame them for.
You don’t even know basic recent history about the subject you’ve been banging on about for 3 years and one you pretend to be some sort of expert on.
I am man enough to accept that - unlike others recently that backslide and prevaricate (a couple of good examples come to mind)
Does not change one-jot the truth of what I say IMO.
The EU should have made provisions for what would happen to existing borders should one member wish to leave (e.g. Portugal) - they were establishing their entity and their constitution, therefore it was their responsibility and it is their fault is an argument that could easily be put
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 12 Apr 2019
- Messages
- 20,405
- Team supported
- FC Zurich (and city of course)
I think it's the blinkered assumption that a view (leave or remain) is 100% correct that polarises the debate or indeed prevents it. There is nothing wrong with having conviction in a passionately held view, but with the population split pretty much down the middle it's probably more intelligent to conclude there is merit in both sides of the debate than that anyone who doesn't hold your view is wrong. I'm assuming you are an adult obviously, forgive this assumption if that is not the case.There’s also a tendency for some Leavers to whine about Remainers instead of recognising when they’ve been proven wrong.
smudgedj
Well-Known Member
They died so their descendants could usurp a democratic vote.indeed - informative article - thanks @robbieh for bringing it to the threads attentions
This statement rings true:
"Unlike the marchers of 1819, people today have the right to vote; but like the marchers of 1819, they’re ignored, blanked, disenfranchised. For the right to vote becomes meaningless if our votes are not properly acted on, if they do not result in the political change that the masses – the largest political mass in UK history in the case of Brexit – demanded."
Yep - the cock-up I made does not detract from the facts of what I saidI think his point was that the EU treatise were constructed in such a way as to either arrogantly assume no one would ever want to leave, or deliberately to thwart attempts to leave. It's a fair point and either way it's pretty poor.
In fact I am just going to post some factual information that will - I fully expect - see a number of the 'usual suspects' come rushing to my defence/support
At the time of my cockup I was quite liberally drinking Merlot and in recent weeks an osteopath has confirmed that my long-standing issues with back/leg is down to sciatica.
So - that will surely get the some posters rushing to show empathy?
There are many borders - Spain / Portugal - lets think about another example than IrelandYou are absolutely correct. I don't think anyone is suggesting the (at the time) non existent GFA should be taken into account, but the potential volatility border between NI /Ireland should have been looked at in the planning stage. I'm not for one minute suggesting anything underhand went on btw, just a bit shortsighted or overly optimistic.
The EU's responsibility was to establish protocols/procedures for what would happen if one member left the EU
The EU's arrogance is that nobody should ever wish to do so
Last edited:
So the argument now is that 3 years of Brexit uncertainty has done a lot of damage so we might as well carry on with Brexit uncertainty (unless you think No Deal offers certainty rather than even more of the never-ending palaver).Where we are is actually at the end of a long 3 years during which any prospect of 'resetting' and forgetting it all has gone
Companies planning to move their operations will likely still do so and in general the 'downside' is baked into the economy - we might as well leave and get on with seeking the upward path as this continued uncertainty is only going to keep us on a downward spiral
You are stuck in the campaign period of over 3 years ago and your nearly every post screams this and has shades of 'its not fair' - its not what they promised'
You seem to like being stuck in the campaign - I gues it is a safe place to be
Correct - it is really boringYeah I know.
Leaves failure to deliver(so far) on their lies is the issue.
Pointing out the remain lies/exaggerations,whataboutery is convenient.
He's right about it being boring though.
And it is a convenient place to hide for some
Since 2016 though the issue is that it has been Remain biased leaders failing to deliver on Leave promises
There are many borders - Spain / Portugal
The EU's responsibility was to establish protocols/procedures for what would happen if one member left the EU
The EU's arrogance is that nobody should ever wish to do so
Give it up - or name a treaty of union that provides a get-out clause. There must be another one somewhere.
USA? motto: out of the many, one.
The Austro-Hungarian Empire? Motto:
‘Indivisibly and inseparably’
Hey - I made a cock-up and manned up to it - not seen you do that and you have had plenty of opportunity toBoring. There's another.
You got it wrong over treaty dates and you're still moaning that people point out when you're wrong. Of course you're entitled to your opinion, it's the crap "facts" that are the problem.
You are starting to sound a bit desperate
Anyways - time to concentrate on City
Hey - my cock-up was made from the airport lounge and as soon as I realised it I admitted it immediatelyOne person certainly was.
He can’t even bring himself to admit he was totally wrong.
So are you now going to admit that you were totally wrong in making this statement? Let's see if you are man enough to
Go on - show that you are not full of - double-standards
more opportunity for you to do so....There’s also a tendency for some Leavers to whine about Remainers instead of recognising when they’ve been proven wrong.
blueish swede
Well-Known Member
- Status
- Not open for further replies.