Another new Brexit thread

[joe123]

Tbh that's something I got my head around a long time ago. Globalisation is not going away just because we are leaving the EU, and I'm not sure why you are seeking to conflate these two separate issues.

Because in a globalised world we'd have a stronger hand in the EU than out of it?

 

[Metal Biker]

Because in a globalised world we'd have a stronger hand in the EU than out of it?

In a "globalised" world the concept of the "EU" would cease to be relevant.

Or is that another "Europe vs the World" argument?

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Because in a globalised world we'd have a stronger hand in the EU than out of it?

In a "globalised" world the concept of the "EU" would cease to be relevant.

Or is that another "Europe vs the World" argument?

Both very fair points tbh.

 

[bluethrunthru]

What should be becoming clear to any Leaver is the whoppers that they bought.

As part of the EU trading with the EU and now in a deal with Japan we had unfettered access to nearly one third of the worlds GDP. Now we don't We won't either because the EU 27 cannot give us any breaks, any deal that betters the one they have between themselves. Thats their treaty so as a result despite what was claimed in the referendum we will not have the same or better trading arrangements with the EU. The EU-Japan deal is written in a way that neither can offer anything better than they have agreed with any third party country - so we aren't doing a deal thats better than the EU's with Japan - nor any time soon despite what Johnson says.

The sooner Leave stops wrapping themselves in the Union flag and claiming anyone not toe-ing their line is not being patriotic and instead understood the difficulties facing us the better - it may well be some of them get a little bitter when they realise things are not going to be what they thought but sometimes the truth hurts.

 

[Metal Biker]

What should be becoming clear to any Leaver is the whoppers that they bought.

As part of the EU trading with the EU and now in a deal with Japan we had unfettered access to nearly one third of the worlds GDP. Now we don't We won't either because the EU 27 cannot give us any breaks, any deal that betters the one they have between themselves. Thats their treaty so as a result despite what was claimed in the referendum we will not have the same or better trading arrangements with the EU. The EU-Japan deal is written in a way that neither can offer anything better than they have agreed with any third party country - so we aren't doing a deal thats better than the EU's with Japan - nor any time soon despite what Johnson says.

The sooner Leave stops wrapping themselves in the Union flag and claiming anyone not toe-ing their line is not being patriotic and instead understood the difficulties facing us the better - it may well be some of them get a little bitter when they realise things are not going to be what they thought but sometimes the truth hurts.

You think that the UK, which was part of the trade discussions with Japan as part of the EU, would be incapable of doing the same thing again as an independent nation? Except this time without any hold ups in regards to FOM terms.

Or do you honestly believe it was the EU getting the UK a trade deal with Japan, entirely on our behalf with 0 input from the UK whatsoever.

 

[bluethrunthru]

You think that the UK, which was part of the trade discussions with Japan as part of the EU, would be incapable of doing the same thing again as an independent nation? Except this time without any hold ups in regards to FOM terms.

Or do you honestly believe it was the EU getting the UK a trade deal with Japan on our behalf.

I think that despite what Johnson says we will not get a better deal than the one the EU has ( we simply cannot its a lie ) - despite what Johnson says it won't be swift ( Japan holding out to see what we do with the EU because they will have to mirror that at best - truth being it gives them the advantage ) and from the point in time that we leave the EU until we agree a deal that puts Japanese investment in the UK - NISSAN, Toyota, Hitachi trains - to name but a few who are already in trouble - under threat which means we come to the table with Japan looking desperate.

No - it was the EU getting a trade deal with Japan for the EU - the EU had long since stopped considering us as we had signalled we were leaving. Thought you'd have realised that.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

What should be becoming clear to any Leaver is the whoppers that they bought.

As part of the EU trading with the EU and now in a deal with Japan we had unfettered access to nearly one third of the worlds GDP. Now we don't We won't either because the EU 27 cannot give us any breaks, any deal that betters the one they have between themselves. Thats their treaty so as a result despite what was claimed in the referendum we will not have the same or better trading arrangements with the EU. The EU-Japan deal is written in a way that neither can offer anything better than they have agreed with any third party country - so we aren't doing a deal thats better than the EU's with Japan - nor any time soon despite what Johnson says.

The sooner Leave stops wrapping themselves in the Union flag and claiming anyone not toe-ing their line is not being patriotic and instead understood the difficulties facing us the better - it may well be some of them get a little bitter when they realise things are not going to be what they thought but sometimes the truth hurts.

I think you are assuming that Leavers made their choice based upon the things that are important to you? I'm not sure this is the case.

 

[Metal Biker]

I think that despite what Johnson says we will not get a better deal than the one the EU has ( we simply cannot its a lie ) - despite what Johnson says it won't be swift ( Japan holding out to see what we do with the EU because they will have to mirror that at best - truth being it gives them the advantage ) and from the point in time that we leave the EU until we agree a deal that puts Japanese investment in the UK - NISSAN, Toyota, Hitachi trains - to name but a few who are already in trouble - under threat which means we come to the table with Japan looking desperate.

No - it was the EU getting a trade deal with Japan for the EU - the EU had long since stopped considering us as we had signalled we were leaving. Thought you'd have realised that.

That all depends on your determination of "better". Can we get a trade deal with Japan/other nations that makes items more affordable and benefits our economies? Yes.

So where's the problem for you?

 

[blueparrot]

You think that the UK, which was part of the trade discussions with Japan as part of the EU, would be incapable of doing the same thing again as an independent nation? Except this time without any hold ups in regards to FOM terms.

Or do you honestly believe it was the EU getting the UK a trade deal with Japan, entirely on our behalf with 0 input from the UK whatsoever.

Not zero input from the UK no, nor was it anywhere near 100% input from the UK , so no we won't get the same deal as the EU, and we certainly won't get better because Japan can't under the terms of it's EU deal.

 

[Metal Biker]

I think you are assuming that Leavers made their choice based upon the things that are important to you? I'm not sure this is the case.

He keeps fighting the economic argument, which most leavers have already accepted there is work to be done. but not one that is impossible to overcome and have accepted it will take time but the benefits of leaving outweigh our intentions of voting the way we did as we voted for another purpose.

He's completely ignored the other arguments about the politisation of Europe, federalisation of Europe, authoritarianism of Europe as he dismisses them as pure fantasy and nonsense.
This is why he will never understand or accept the leave decision.