Another new Brexit thread

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Read up on the history then.

Opposition to the Common Market was a labour/union policy for decades.

Not sure its that relevant to be honest, the only labour party to win an election in my life time was Tony Blairs New Labour and the EU was a non issue. Our membership was a fringe debate in politics for 30/40 years until Cameron dipped his toe in.

 

[Metal Biker]

Not sure its that relevant to be honest, the only labour party to win an election in my life time was Tony Blairs New Labour and the EU was a non issue. Our membership was a fringe debate in politics for 30/40 years until Cameron dipped his toe in.

Oh deary deary me... The party that won in 1974 was Labour, and the first thing they offered the people was a referendum on EEC membership in 1975. It was what they campaigned on in '73 to get into power. Common Market membership was an issue of debate all throughout Thatcher's reign from Labour and the Unions.

After 1992's electoral failure, New Labour appealed to the workers, entrepreneurs and the businesses, usually a Conservative demographic. "Not relevant"? You've said that leaving the EU is a "Tory internal squabble"; it was the Tories who took us in, kept us in, signed the Maastricht Treaty, then forced Blair to appeal to Conservative interests to gain a landslide. The Conservative Government leadership's official position was of one to remain. Labour stayed "neutral", aside from many who supported a vote to leave.

I suppose in your world those sort of Labour voters don't exist, do they. Well they do, and they made their voices heard 23rd June 2016.

 

[mcfc1632]

Ain't it just, 4 years busting a gut re-fighting the referendum, then asks
why we're doing it.

It's fucking wonderful in here sometimes.

I proper lol'd when I read that

They are becoming comedy gold

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Oh deary deary me... The party that won in 1974 was Labour, and the first thing they offered the people was a referendum on EEC membership in 1975. It was what they campaigned on in '73 to get into power. Common Market membership was an issue of debate all throughout Thatcher's reign from Labour and the Unions.

After 1992's electoral failure, New Labour appealed to the workers, entrepreneurs and the businesses, usually a Conservative demographic. "Not relevant"? You've said that leaving the EU is a "Tory internal squabble"; it was the Tories who took us in, kept us in, signed the Maastricht Treaty, then forced Blair to appeal to Conservative interests to gain a landslide. The Conservative Government leadership's official position was of one to remain. Labour stayed "neutral", aside from many who supported a vote to leave.

I suppose in your world those sort of Labour voters don't exist, do they. Well they do, and they made their voices heard 23rd June 2016.

Nice one granddad - now tell us about the war.

 

[Vic]

That's right mate, cos it's the leave side that have been talking down to people for 4 years plus. We're the ones that have been calling people "ignorant", "frightened" , "didn't know what they were voting for".

It was a proponent of leave that asked, on question time, "who will now serve me in Pret"

Course it was. Nothing to see here.

And as for immigrants, unlike you and yours, I'm all in favour of a level playing field for all immigrants. I'll judge someone on the content of his character, not on the content of his passport. If you have skills or abilities the country needs I won't make it easier for you if you are European at the cost of making it harder for you if you're African or Asian. (Or Australian or American etc)

Imagine the scenario at the port of entry:

Q: "what's that sir, you don't speak the language? Do not have any skills? Sorry, is that a European passport? It is? No problem sir, in you come"

"You? You're a what? A highly qualified doctor? You speak the language? You've got some money saved up to help yourself get settled? Marvellous sir, let's have a look at your passport. Oh! Sorry sir? This is a Pakistani passport. Yes, of course you can come in, just join that line over there first please sir we have a few hoops for you to jump through first if you don't mind. There's a good lad"

"What's that sir? Why am I doing this? Why surely thats obvious sir. It's because I'm not a racist"

You're inventing stuff though.

How many EU immigrants do you know that don't speak English?

Who put the hoops there for the Pakistani doctor? Including (till yesterday) the charges for a doctor in the NHS to use the NHS. Clue, it wasn't the EU.

Skills or abilities? Are you talking about low-skilled care workers or key-worker care workers? They won't get in (from any nationality) under the new immigration bill. It's discriminatory all right - against poor people.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

You're inventing stuff though.

How many EU immigrants do you know that don't speak English?

Who put the hoops there for the Pakistani doctor? Including (till yesterday) the charges for a doctor in the NHS to use the NHS. Clue, it wasn't the EU.

Skills or abilities? Are you talking about low-skilled care workers or key-worker care workers? They won't get in (from any nationality) under the new immigration bill. It's discriminatory all right - against poor people.

Any immigration policy is going to be discriminatory in some fashion - unless you have an open border. The idea that the EU is discriminatory when all it does is establish a minimum level of openness to its own citizens is ridiculous but I fully expect to hear it again as this thread is like a load of stuck records playing at once.

 

[Metal Biker]

Nice one granddad - now tell us about the war.

I'm probably younger than you. I wasn't born when this happened either.

Studying history; Try it once in a while. That way you don't come across like a misinformed buffoon. I can see it upset you though, given the unnecessary hostility of your reply.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Skills or abilities? Are you talking about low-skilled care workers or key-worker care workers? They won't get in (from any nationality) under the new immigration bill. It's discriminatory all right - against poor people.

what we effectively are ending up with is a charter for wealthy people and their wealthy kids to come here and all our kids basically being set up to do the "low paid, low skilled" jobs - somebody will have to do them and we have made it plain we don't think any pesky immigrants coming in to do them and we certainly don't want British apples to cost £100 per kilo in order to pay an English student over £25k pa to pick them.

 

[BobKowalski]

Any immigration policy is going to be discriminatory in some fashion - unless you have an open border. The idea that the EU is discriminatory when all it does is establish a minimum level of openness to its own citizens is ridiculous but I fully expect to hear it again as this thread is like a load of stuck records playing at once.

Agreed. All immigration policies are discriminatory because that is the point of them. Freedom of movement removes the discriminatory element by endeavouring to treat all citizens from 29 countries equally.

The sheer stupidity of arguing otherwise is a feature of Brexiteer thinking. Assuming one could call it thinking.

 

[Vic]

He does not change - always deceitful in the way he seeks to twists word of others to provide him something he wants to answer

He did again a couple of posts ago - so transparent

Tell me what I twisted. Or better yet, tell me why the Agriculture Bill will be good for British farmers rather than foreign farmers (outside the EU) with lower standards? Tell the 22 Tory MPs from rural constituencies who rebelled. (Make that 21 really - Rishi Sunak pressed the wrong button.)

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1w4nlPz-iYxaUh-iBCjwAQllOxxPO_nbt&ll=53.993053820081585,-5.796917428124989&z=5

Tell me anything other than the usual crap. Or just say something new, for pity's sake. It's weeks since I tried to get you to engage with a real issue when I asked, "Why would we want to be able to sign up to a trade deal with other countries which results in opening our ports, shelves and fridges to food which would be illegal to produce here? That would be morally bankrupt, insane even." You called it a silly question. It was a quote from the President of the NFU.

So I'll ask another question - does none of this matter? If you wanted the "resolve" to work so that the EU caved in and rewarded our perfidy with a deal that didn't respect the level playing field Johnson agreed to, would you then be OK with deals with the USA and others that let in food produced to lower standards than what we now produce, or are we going to lower our standards too?