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Another new Brexit thread
- Thread starter Ric
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There was soooo much of that bollocks posted on here between 2017 - 2019Would also add i won’t vote for an mp who voted down both a deal and a no deal option
That’s the clear issue to me
Trying to undermine any chance of a good deal by ruling out no deal
Then saying the deal is shit and we should stay!!!
It’s clever people thinking they know better than the people who vote for them
Clearly not
I attracted scorn for occasionally pointing out another inconvenient truth....
We will not see movement from the EU unless and until they face the prospect of a viable walk away option and the political will to use it
Such an obviously factual statement - and long since proven to be spot on - but they kept denying it.
journolud
Well-Known Member
There was soooo much of that bollocks posted on here between 2017 - 2019
I attracted scorn for occasionally pointing out another inconvenient truth....
We will not see movement from the EU unless and until they face the prospect of a viable walk away option and the political will to use it
Such an obviously factual statement - and long since proven to be spot on - but they kept denying it.
Never saw you post that to be honest
Has there ever been a more ignorant post on this subject?Brexit is a tory internal squabble that has spilled into the mainstream. The root cause is the fact that tory party members are; ignorant, nationalistic bigots. For a time the average Tory MP was pro EU but the average member didn't like dirty foreigners. Over time the ambitious within the party saw the opportunity moving to the side of the 100k mildly racist members. None of them really believe it as they tend to well educated and come from circles of well paid white collar jobs, people who know its all BS. Boris Johnson has made this exact journey himself.
Beggars belief
I think it likely that most Brexit supporters on here are not Tories
The referendum was won for Leave by the support of so many non-Tory voters
The 2019 GE gave the government a landslide due to the shift of traditional non-Tory voters wishing to support Brexit
Utter bullshit
Simple factThat's right mate, cos it's the leave side that have been talking down to people for 4 years plus. We're the ones that have been calling people "ignorant", "frightened" , "didn't know what they were voting for".
It was a proponent of leave that asked, on question time, "who will now serve me in Pret"
Course it was. Nothing to see here.
And as for immigrants, unlike you and yours, I'm all in favour of a level playing field for all immigrants. I'll judge someone on the content of his character, not on the content of his passport. If you have skills or abilities the country needs I won't make it easier for you if you are European at the cost of making it harder for you if you're African or Asian. (Or Australian or American etc)
Imagine the scenario at the port of entry:
Q: "what's that sir, you don't speak the language? Do not have any skills? Sorry, is that a European passport? It is? No problem sir, in you come"
"You? You're a what? A highly qualified doctor? You speak the language? You've got some money saved up to help yourself get settled? Marvellous sir, let's have a look at your passport. Oh! Sorry sir? This is a Pakistani passport. Yes, of course you can come in, just join that line over there first please sir we have a few hoops for you to jump through first if you don't mind. There's a good lad"
"What's that sir? Why am I doing this? Why surely thats obvious sir. It's because I'm not a racist"
The EU's FOM is inherently discriminatory
Ancient Citizen
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There are many Europhiles, particularly Labour ones, who display a complete ignorance of theirOh deary deary me... The party that won in 1974 was Labour, and the first thing they offered the people was a referendum on EEC membership in 1975. It was what they campaigned on in '73 to get into power. Common Market membership was an issue of debate all throughout Thatcher's reign from Labour and the Unions.
After 1992's electoral failure, New Labour appealed to the workers, entrepreneurs and the businesses, usually a Conservative demographic. "Not relevant"? You've said that leaving the EU is a "Tory internal squabble"; it was the Tories who took us in, kept us in, signed the Maastricht Treaty, then forced Blair to appeal to Conservative interests to gain a landslide. The Conservative Government leadership's official position was of one to remain. Labour stayed "neutral", aside from many who supported a vote to leave.
I suppose in your world those sort of Labour voters don't exist, do they. Well they do, and they made their voices heard 23rd June 2016.
party's history. Imagine telling Tony Benn, if he was alive today that a desire to quit the EU
was an internal Tory squabble.
Nice one granddad - now tell us about the war.
What a stupid reply you dick
Last week was 75 years since VE Day
I wasn’t alive but I sure respect the history behind it
MB's problem is that he's writing history from what he selectively reads rather than lived history. He really can't find any evidence of Euroscepticism in the Labour Party to anything like the way it has riven the Tory party and has ended with loyalty tests (re Brexit) for Tory MPs (essentially to go against their conscience). I had the utmost respect for Tony Benn; when I heard him speak I always (if he hadn't already done it) asked him about his five questions for people in power, and I shared most of his philosophy. But who else of Labour's "big beasts" was for leaving the European Community? (Ha - "big beasts" - how our politics has been diminished since that era...)
The 1992 manifesto was pushing the Social Chapter which the Tories opposed (it covered standards for equal opportunities; working conditions; information and consultation (employers and unions); integration of those excluded from the labour market; social security; dismissals; employee representation).
"We will opt in to the Social Chapter of the new European Treaty and introduce employment standards common in successful economies, including the best health and safety legislation. The existing protection provided for people engaged in especially hazardous work will be retained.
"Women and men must be able to care for their family as well as earn a living. We will give all employees equal rights and status under the law, whether they are full-time or part-time, permanent or temporary. We aim to guarantee every woman in employment the right to 14 weeks' maternity leave on full pay, and to give fathers paternity leave, bringing Britain into line with the better provision elsewhere in the European Community."
It's obvious why the Tories don't like the EU. I'm sorry that Labour Leave voters felt nobody was listening - and I had plenty of (polite) arguments with them in our constituency - but they will regret giving their vote to a party not committed to maintaining rights that being in the EU guaranteed.
The 1992 manifesto was pushing the Social Chapter which the Tories opposed (it covered standards for equal opportunities; working conditions; information and consultation (employers and unions); integration of those excluded from the labour market; social security; dismissals; employee representation).
"We will opt in to the Social Chapter of the new European Treaty and introduce employment standards common in successful economies, including the best health and safety legislation. The existing protection provided for people engaged in especially hazardous work will be retained.
"Women and men must be able to care for their family as well as earn a living. We will give all employees equal rights and status under the law, whether they are full-time or part-time, permanent or temporary. We aim to guarantee every woman in employment the right to 14 weeks' maternity leave on full pay, and to give fathers paternity leave, bringing Britain into line with the better provision elsewhere in the European Community."
It's obvious why the Tories don't like the EU. I'm sorry that Labour Leave voters felt nobody was listening - and I had plenty of (polite) arguments with them in our constituency - but they will regret giving their vote to a party not committed to maintaining rights that being in the EU guaranteed.
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I see that the EU are demonstrating their consistency - they never miss the opportunity to use a crisis to cement further their strategies of integration and the taking of more powers.
The recent exchanges about the fragility of the EU - as exposed by the links shared by @Saddleworth2 - are relevant when you consider how the EU commission's proposals could/will develop. It will only take one major beneficiary nation to drop out - Italy? - or conversely one benefactor to block the plans - Germany? and the fault lines will fracture.
Quite perverse really - the situation used to be the rich northern nations - particularly Germany benefitting from the poorer southern ones getting more and more bitter as they became further and further in debt to the northern banks.
Now the poorer nations will be lobbying for a higher and higher level of EU borrowing and for the funding to be distributed via grants rather than loans - and whilst recovery from the dreadful Covid-19 pandemic will be the justification - it will not be a one-off - in fact it cannot be.
The current situation seems to be reaching a point of explosion/implosion - and I suspect the tipping point will be reached at a future point when Germany and other northern nations block future proposals for borrowing levels. If the money is distributed in grants - why would the poorer nations ever reform? They are incapable of doing so anyway.
Thankfully/hopefully - and against all the odds when viewed from a few years ago - the UK will be able to observe from a relative and increasingly safe distance.
To use the recent sinking ship analogies - we could soon be grateful to be in a lifeboat, but I hope we break really free of EU controls so the equivalent becomes akin to the UK being in the safer position of being on board the Carpathia before the implosion happens.
This from Irish media:
"......Ms von der Leyen is planning an audacious bid for new powers as she seeks to put her institution at the centre of efforts to revive the European economy, asking member states for unprecedented latitude to raise funds in the markets. But the former German defence minister faces the central test of her short presidency as she seeks to bridge bitter splits within the EU over the plan."
https://www.irishtimes.com/business...e-an-existential-threat-in-covid-19-1.4256427
The recent exchanges about the fragility of the EU - as exposed by the links shared by @Saddleworth2 - are relevant when you consider how the EU commission's proposals could/will develop. It will only take one major beneficiary nation to drop out - Italy? - or conversely one benefactor to block the plans - Germany? and the fault lines will fracture.
Quite perverse really - the situation used to be the rich northern nations - particularly Germany benefitting from the poorer southern ones getting more and more bitter as they became further and further in debt to the northern banks.
Now the poorer nations will be lobbying for a higher and higher level of EU borrowing and for the funding to be distributed via grants rather than loans - and whilst recovery from the dreadful Covid-19 pandemic will be the justification - it will not be a one-off - in fact it cannot be.
The current situation seems to be reaching a point of explosion/implosion - and I suspect the tipping point will be reached at a future point when Germany and other northern nations block future proposals for borrowing levels. If the money is distributed in grants - why would the poorer nations ever reform? They are incapable of doing so anyway.
Thankfully/hopefully - and against all the odds when viewed from a few years ago - the UK will be able to observe from a relative and increasingly safe distance.
To use the recent sinking ship analogies - we could soon be grateful to be in a lifeboat, but I hope we break really free of EU controls so the equivalent becomes akin to the UK being in the safer position of being on board the Carpathia before the implosion happens.
This from Irish media:
"......Ms von der Leyen is planning an audacious bid for new powers as she seeks to put her institution at the centre of efforts to revive the European economy, asking member states for unprecedented latitude to raise funds in the markets. But the former German defence minister faces the central test of her short presidency as she seeks to bridge bitter splits within the EU over the plan."
https://www.irishtimes.com/business...e-an-existential-threat-in-covid-19-1.4256427
His last few posts have utterly outed him as a KFA - embarrassed for himWhat a stupid reply you dick
Last week was 75 years since VE Day
I wasn’t alive but I sure respect the history behind it
Strange for someone who posts as if their every view should be accepted as certainty to post such ignorant shit.
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