Another new Brexit thread

[BobKowalski]

It really is quite straightforward: we’ve elected to leave and need to be man enough to deal with the consequences. I’m not sure what people expected, but if the present situation wasn’t contemplated by some as a realistic possibility then they don’t live in the real world.

Fucking deal with it and stop complaining.

Agreed. We signed the Withdrawal Agreement, agreed to put up an internal customs border and we need to get on and implement the things we signed up to. Brexit means trade barriers so we need to build the infrastructure and implement the systems to reflect this new reality. Brexit means we want our own regulatory systems that mirror the EU’s. Again we need to be getting on and setting these things up.

You vote for something you accept the reality.

But I’m still going to woman about the stupidity and incompetence of it all :)

 

[Ban-jani]

Its hard to see them do worse to be honest. Everything has been slow / delayed. Johnsons briefings have been awful the science/politics is muddled and the Cummings issue lost them all credibility on enforcing the lockdown. We have the highest number of excess deaths in the world.

You say that but what’s become apparent is that the public were only ever going to accept the lockdown for a limited period of time.

The virus was almost certainly here and there’s no way they could have kept it out.

The plan was to ensure we had enough ICU’s right from the start and the lockdown needed to be timed to get us into the summer months to ensure we didn’t have an overflow.

Sure they cocked a lot up, looked foolish at certain times, u-turned on decisions but they also built the world’s largest hospital and not a single person who contracted the virus was turned away from an ICU, which is an achievement.

It’ll all come out in the wash but I doubt the death figures would be much different with Labour in charge.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

This is what people were ‘promised’ and I could quite happily live with all that. Trouble is, the reality doesn’t seem to stack up with the promises, or maybe I’m missing something.

1. SAME BENEFITS OUTSIDE THE SINGLE MARKET. The Government and Vote Leave have promised that there will be no new trade barriers between the UK and EU and no fall in UK-EU trade, with the ‘exact same benefits’ delivered through an FTA as we have within the Single Market and Customs Union.
2. NEW TRADE DEALS READY TO SIGN ON DAY ONE. The Government and Vote Leave have promised to negotiate lots of new trade deals with other world powers that are ready to sign on the day of our departure from the EU.
3. MAJOR SAVINGS FROM THE EU BUDGET. The Government and Vote Leave have promised to increase investment in public services from the intended savings from ceasing to make contributions to the EU budget.
4. NO CHANGE TO NORTHERN IRELAND BORDER ARRANGEMENTS. The Government and Vote Leave have promised to keep the border
between Northern Ireland and the Republic open as it is today.
5. PRESERVING CITIZENS’, WORKERS’ AND ENVIRONMENTAL RIGHTS. The Government and Vote Leave have promised to preserve the rights currently guaranteed by membership of the EU, which include workers’ and consumers’ rights, environ- mental rights and standards, and the rights of EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens residing in EU states.
6. PROTECTING NATIONAL SECURITY. The Government and Vote Leave have promised to secure a deal on security that maintains and enhances our cooperation with the European Union.
7. MAINTAINING THE INTEGRITY OF THE UNITED KINGDOM.
The Government and Vote Leave have promised that the Union will be stronger not weaker as a result of Brexit.
8. STRENGTHENING SCIENCE AND RESEARCH. The Government and Vote Leave have promised to retain the same science and research partnerships with Europe as we have today, including the same degree of co-operation in Higher Education.
9. OUT OF THE EU BY MARCH 2019. The Government and Vote Leave have promised that the UK will leave the EU by March 2019
10. DRAMATIC REDUCTION OF MIGRATION. The Government and Vote Leave have promised that Brexit will help them to reduce net migration to the tens of thou- sands, while also pledging that the UK will remain open to talent and skills and that no UK business will be denied the skills they need.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I'm sure thats true. In this case however, why should 'remainers' suck it up and stop complaining? I genuinely don't follow your logic here mate.

I didn’t say they should.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Careful with that axe Eugene, look at the likes you're attracting.

I’m a hugely popular poster.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

You say that but what’s become apparent is that the public were only ever going to accept the lockdown for a limited period of time.

The virus was almost certainly here and there’s no way they could have kept it out.

The plan was to ensure we had enough ICU’s right from the start and the lockdown needed to be timed to get us into the summer months to ensure we didn’t have an overflow.

Sure they cocked a lot up, looked foolish at certain times, u-turned on decisions but they also built the world’s largest hospital and not a single person who contracted the virus was turned away from an ICU, which is an achievement.

It’ll all come out in the wash but I doubt the death figures would be much different with Labour in charge.

Whilst not wishing to help derail the Brexit thread, the simple fact is that, they’re not and haven’t been for over TEN years.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Agreed. We signed the Withdrawal Agreement, agreed to put up an internal customs border and we need to get on and implement the things we signed up to. Brexit means trade barriers so we need to build the infrastructure and implement the systems to reflect this new reality. Brexit means we want our own regulatory systems that mirror the EU’s. Again we need to be getting on and setting these things up.

You vote for something you accept the reality.

But I’m still going to woman about the stupidity and incompetence of it all :)

At least you’re coherent enough to follow what I’m saying :-)

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

I thought we’d already said that we weren’t going to impose customs checks on most imports from the EU deal or no deal, leaving us open to other countries exporting whatever they want here without restrictions due to WTO MFN rules if we don’t get a deal.

WTO has a set tariff system at its core so if you are trading on WTO you have to enforce it - that means customs and tariffs across the piece. That means collecting said tariffs from our EU imports. The SM is tariff free so you just let stuff through as long as it has confirmed EU origin, that is very simple. Collecting the right level of tariff is very complex and that is what will clog up the ports as you cant let stuff through without the paperwork.

 

[Vic]

My post wasn't aimed at that those that voted to remain; the fact that you can't identify that is down to your shortcomings, not mine.

If I was incoherent, I wouldn't eat.

I must have well missed the point. Were you complaining about Leavers who are complaining? It was Leavers (and Ban Jani - not sure what he thinks) who liked it so I guess I wasn't the only one who misunderstood

 

[mcfc1632]

Most Remainers can - it seems - only look back to decades ago rather than the decades to come.

Shock horror - that was the past - it will be the future that we will have to live through and which will see very difficult times for the EU and the UK had we Remained.

Now - when our grandchildren can look back with hindsight - the decision by the UK to quit EU membership will be seen as the key reason that (future) UK citizens are enjoying a better standard of living and prospects than the citizens of the residual EU members.

GDM is right - and I took his comments to be aimed mainly at Leave supporters that might now be rueing the prospects of No-Deal - although I do not know any of those.

Yes - the expectation was that a TA would have been entered into between the EU and the UK - but it seems that we have a situation of stalemate - where neither party can afford to acquiesce to the demands of the other.

I think that this is quite right - given where we are in June 2020.

GDM is correct to say that such an outcome was always possible - it takes 2 to make an agreement - we cannot force the EU to agree to a TA on our terms - and thankfully (now that May and Robbins has been fucked off) it appears that the EU is less able to force the UK into a TA on their terms.

The EU appear to have considered and come to the conclusion that the economic impact of No-Deal for them is far less a threat then the prospect of seeing the UK become a successful independent nation and therefore the cause of widespread and accelerated discontent across the EU27.

I am certainly someone that considers that the economic impact of No-Deal for us is far less a threat then the prospect of seeing the UK controlled through EU regulations - fuck - Remaining was less of a threat.

This is why there is absolutely zero point in an extension of any length and all efforts should go into No-Deal preparations and post 2020 management.

There is no magic solution for either Remainers or Leavers - the clock cannot be reset to June 2016 and the EU cannot be forced into a deal on our terms - so let's just get on with it and stop complaining.