Another new Brexit thread

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Agreed. We signed the Withdrawal Agreement, agreed to put up an internal customs border and we need to get on and implement the things we signed up to. Brexit means trade barriers so we need to build the infrastructure and implement the systems to reflect this new reality. Brexit means we want our own regulatory systems that mirror the EU’s. Again we need to be getting on and setting these things up.

You vote for something you accept the reality.

But I’m still going to woman about the stupidity and incompetence of it all :)

It’s lose-lose for Johnson though - this reality was never clearly articulated by him to anyone, it was left to remianers to warn of the consequences that were then shouted down as negativity and project fear. Johnson wont backpeddle and ask for an extension as that will end any notion that the EU will cave to our demands and enraging Brexiters. So we plough on to the inevitable chaos in 6 months time. The average man on the street just doesn't know what is coming and how much cost and disruption it is going to cause. Brexit and Johnson are already unpopular in the poles and we haven't seen anything yet.

 

[Vic]

It’s lose-lose for Johnson though - this reality was never clearly articulated by him to anyone, it was left to remianers to warn of the consequences that were then shouted down as negativity and project fear. Johnson wont backpeddle and ask for an extension as that will end any notion that the EU will cave to our demands and enraging Brexiters. So we plough on to the inevitable chaos in 6 months time. The average man on the street just doesn't know what is coming and how much cost and disruption it is going to cause. Brexit and Johnson are already unpopular in the poles and we haven't seen anything yet.

Unpopular in the poles?

Exile Johnson to the Arctic and Cummings to the Antarctic. That should solve a few issues.

 

[Ban-jani]

Whilst not wishing to help derail the Brexit thread, the simple fact is that, they’re not and haven’t been for over TEN years.

There‘s a very very specific reason for that.

 

[Vic]

I cannot remember ever seeing a post on here that reflects the really important reasons for the UK to Leave the EU - which are what will happen in the future - not the past.

Most Remainers can - it seems - only look back to decades ago rather than the decades to come.

Shock horror - that was the past - it will be the future that we will have to live through and which will see very difficult times for the EU and the UK had we Remained.

Now - when our grandchildren can look back with hindsight - the decision by the UK to quit EU membership will be seen as the key reason that (future) UK citizens are enjoying a better standard of living and prospects than the citizens of the residual EU members.

GDM is right - and I took his comments to be aimed mainly at Leave supporters that might now be rueing the prospects of No-Deal - although I do not know any of those.

Yes - the expectation was that a TA would have been entered into between the EU and the UK - but it seems that we have a situation of stalemate - where neither party can afford to acquiesce to the demands of the other.

I think that this is quite right - given where we are in June 2020.

GDM is correct to say that such an outcome was always possible - it takes 2 to make an agreement - we cannot force the EU to agree to a TA on our terms - and thankfully (now that May and Robbins has been fucked off) it appears that the EU is less able to force the UK into a TA on their terms.

The EU appear to have considered and come to the conclusion that the economic impact of No-Deal for them is far less a threat then the prospect of seeing the UK become a successful independent nation and therefore the cause of widespread and accelerated discontent across the EU27.

I am certainly someone that considers that the economic impact of No-Deal for us is far less a threat then the prospect of seeing the UK controlled through EU regulations - fuck - Remaining was less of a threat.

This is why there is absolutely zero point in an extension of any length and all efforts should go into No-Deal preparations and post 2020 management.

There is no magic solution for either Remainers or Leavers - the clock cannot be reset to June 2016 and the EU cannot be forced into a deal on our terms - so let's just get on with it and stop complaining.

I only read first and last sentences but really-
"let's just get on with it and stop complaining". If that's your best wisdom, I'm sure Mr Frost will be happy to convey that sentiment to M. Barnier.

 

[mcfc1632]

It’s lose-lose for Johnson though - this reality was never clearly articulated by him to anyone, it was left to remianers to warn of the consequences that were then shouted down as negativity and project fear. Johnson wont backpeddle and ask for an extension as that will end any notion that the EU will cave to our demands and enraging Brexiters. So we plough on to the inevitable chaos in 6 months time. The average man on the street just doesn't know what is coming and how much cost and disruption it is going to cause. Brexit and Johnson are already unpopular in the poles and we haven't seen anything yet.

If neither the EU or UK are willing to reduce their core demands - what possible point is there on an extension of any period?

 

[Vic]

If neither the EU or UK are willing to reduce their core demands - what possible point is there on an extension of any period?

Other than that we won't be ready to levy tariffs on imports on 1st January?

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

It’s lose-lose for Johnson though - this reality was never clearly articulated by him to anyone, it was left to remianers to warn of the consequences that were then shouted down as negativity and project fear. Johnson wont backpeddle and ask for an extension as that will end any notion that the EU will cave to our demands and enraging Brexiters. So we plough on to the inevitable chaos in 6 months time. The average man on the street just doesn't know what is coming and how much cost and disruption it is going to cause. Brexit and Johnson are already unpopular in the poles and we haven't seen anything yet.

You’ve forgotten the ‘Francois letter’. That’ll sort it........

 

[mcfc1632]

Not my usual reading material - the Workers Socialist Web Site.....

But some interesting snippets in this dreadfully right-wing source;-)

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/06/30/mese-j30.html

We keep hearing from Remainers about the solidarity of the EU27 - a collection of 'equals' - whereas Leavers have been pointing out that, in reality, certain nations seem to call the tunes

Here we have (again) Macron and Merkel seemingly deciding key strategies and direction for the rest to follow.

A few extracts....

"After the EU blocked US citizens from entering Europe, Merkel and Macron called for stepped-up military spending and austerity to ensure Europe’s ability to wage war independently from Washington."

"She said Germany and France want to “play a joint role in the coming months, making it clear that Europe is our future ... Only in the European community will we be strong and play our role in the world.” The “great challenges” she foresaw included digitization, climate change, but also “the question of war and peace in the true sense of the word.”

"Currently the European powers are working closely together on transforming the EU into a military alliance that—unlike NATO—can act independently of and if necessary against the US......"

Makes me wonder about all those assurances in 2016/17 about there being no intentions for an EU army etc. of course that was a lie.

"She also suggested that limited concessions would be made to governments of more indebted EU countries in order to secure their support for Germany’s new bid for world power."

"In Meseburg, Merkel and Macron left no doubt that the working class will bear the costs of the crisis. Merkel made clear the €500 billion “Recovery Fund” proposed by Germany and France will be linked to savage austerity against working people. “Everyone must make themselves fit for the future at home” and “strengthen their own competitiveness....."

For me - it is obvious that the EU is on a path that the UK will/should be glad to not be a part of - we need to start by making a clean break - and then start to unpick any involvements being considered in the development of PESCO

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

There‘s a very very specific reason for that.

Doesn’t really matter what the reason is though, what Labour would do is entirely irrelevant to any of this. Gove has written some pile of guff that says that people have become disillusioned with British politics over the last ten years and, without any hint of irony, him and the government are going to fix it. This from a man who has been in government for quite a lot of those 10 years...
Now we’ve moved on to political appointments like Trump. Appointing a political advisor as the national security advisor cannot be a great way for ‘truth to speak unto power’, but we are doing it anyway. The NSA will now say what Boris/Dom want/need him to say not what he should say, which can’t be right?

 

[Ban-jani]

Doesn’t really matter what the reason is though, what Labour would do is entirely irrelevant to any of this. Gove has written some pile of guff that says that people have become disillusioned with British politics over the last ten years and, without any hint of irony, him and the government are going to fix it. This from a man who has been in government for quite a lot of those 10 years...
Now we’ve moved on to political appointments like Trump. Appointing a political advisor as the national security advisor cannot be a great way for ‘truth to speak unto power’, but we are doing it anyway. The NSA will now say what Boris/Dom want/need him to say not what he should say, which can’t be right?

What’s that got to with my post?