Another new Brexit thread

[mancity2012_eamo]

Not sure if it’s just a lack of self-awareness, or a strange sense of victimhood, but if you really think it’s been one way traffic on this thread over the last four years then I give up.

Did you watch Annie Lennox last night Ric?

 

[Ric]

Did you watch Annie Lennox last night Ric?

Ha, I’m afraid not mate. Not really my cup of tea.

 

[journolud]

Here is some good news for both sides.......

This should at least reduce the lorry queues in Kent

Brexit: New ferry freight route opens between France and Ireland (yahoo.com)

I don't know - perhaps because there has been 4 years of constant moaning and snide comments from the Remainers on these threads. Most Leavers have given up in the face of it - but I am dogged




meanwhile........

Anyway, from a Leaver POV, this is a worrying sign:

EU Sends Top Official to Brexit Talks, Lifting Deal Hopes: Times - BNN Bloomberg

I think that Johnson is going to fold

There is maybe an alternative view as to why most leavers have "given up". For many the argument was won with the referendum result or if not that then the triggering of article 50 and then voting through Johnson's "oven ready deal". That hasn't stopped a lot of crowing and triumphalism over the last four years though and you are right in one respect that there has been a lot of poor exchanges on the various Brexit threads. Leavers have hardly been shrinking violets though likely to succumb to a bit of internet "bullying"

The closer we get to the real business end of things there appears to be more bad news than good and maybe the reality is hitting home that this might not be the best thing for the nation after all. I'm no expert and will admit some of my responses and reactions since the referendum have been emotional rather than logical, after all as a remainer I have something "invested" in Brexit not being a success. Like you (as I recall you have previously posted) I'm unlikely to be personally adversely affected by what Brexit brings as I'm semi retired and financially comfortable so can absorb for example an increase in the price of my groceries.

As a father of two young men starting out in life though the future does matter, whether it's a post COVID, post Brexit, climate change affected world.

I'd feel more reassured if we saw the same sort of arguments we have seen for the last few years about the potential financial implications of Brexit but leavers have for some time been reduced, and I'm generalising, to crowing "we won, you lost, got over it" and liking @Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese posts where he attempts, with varying degrees of success, to inject some humour into the debate. Sadly leavers are more likely to "like" those posts than to actually rebutt the arguments put forward, with the exception of you when you can be bothered although you seem less and less inclined to put the economic case for Brexit. Nobody from the leave side have for example come on to analyse and give alternative facts in respect of Emily Thornberry's take down of the Japan trade deal; you at least have admitted that Thornberry was correct and it does see us lose out in real terms on what we would get from the EU-Japan deal. Maybe though in the grand scheme of things there will be other trade deals that see us in credit, perhaps you or another leaver could develop that point.

I'm not sure that I take the first link you have posted as a plus in respect of Brexit but maybe I'm looking at it too simply. The article seems to suggest that it will benefit trade previously passing through the UK rather than to and from so perhaps there is a benefit in terms of reduced volumes of freight and we can concentrate on processing our own queues quicker.

Conversely, the second link you have posted doesn't have to be a negative does it? Unless you are concerned that Johnson will agree a deal that doesn't sit well with the kind of Brexit that you envisage as being best for the country. Which brings us neatly round to one of the crucial points that illustrate this shitshow in that Brexit can mean any number of things depending on how far off the fence you sit, remain only ever meant remain and work from change from within (if necessary). The Daily Mail has an alternative view to you though in that this moves us closer to a deal

EU 'leans on' Michel Barnier to make progress in Brexit trade talks (msn.com)

(I've not read the full article as I can't access the Mail website unless I turn off ad blocker but you get the gist). I guess the question remains, as ever, what sort of deal are we moving towards and how will it benefit the UK?

 

[Len Rum]

All about the fish, 'bout the fish, 'bout the fish
All about the fish, 'bout the fish, no bother.

According to Raaaaaaaaaaaab.

Except it isn't just about the fish.
It's about the much more difficult issues for the UK of LPF and governance.

This is just a smokescreen being put about by the Government to blame the EU in the event of no deal.

 

[bluethrunthru]

and with reduced crossing of the land bridge so ports shed jobs too - its all about wnning is Brexit eh?

 

[Saddleworth2]

and with reduced crossing of the land bridge so ports shed jobs too - its all about wnning is Brexit eh?

Scotland would have shorter distance to sail.

 

[Vic]

Scotland would have shorter distance to sail.

I don't understand the last comment.

It would be interesting to tot up the benefit of the land bridge to the English economy. Service stations, transport cafes, tax on fuel bought in the UK...

Big benefit for air quality on the A55 / M62, M6, A14.
"Brexit boost for Brum as EU lorries take to the seas."

 

[Saddleworth2]

I don't understand the last comment.

It would be interesting to tot up the benefit of the land bridge to the English economy. Service stations, transport cafes, tax on fuel bought in the UK...

Big benefit for air quality on the A55 / M62, M6, A14.

Simply if Scotland gets independence and rejoins, a ferry would have a shorter trip than the Dublin one :-)
I recognise there are guitar a few ‘ands’ in all of that.

 

[Vic]

Simply if Scotland gets independence and rejoins, a ferry would have a shorter trip than the Dublin one :-)
I recognise there are guitar a few ‘ands’ in all of that.

It might work with a United Ireland using Larne or Belfast. Otherwise Dublin - Cairnryan - Leith - Rotterdam/Hamburg doesn't sound attractive.

 

[Vic]

I know about Britain first but I've just heard Eustice say that Lurpak should tear up with their agreements with Danish trade unions and move jobs here (to avoid tariffs on Danish butter).

As he's also about to make dairy farming in the UK less viable, Lurpak would still have to import EU milk to make butter here.

I'm sorry that this sort of thing is bullying Leaavers off the thread.