Another new Brexit thread

[west didsblue]

The leavers are quite right in that we don’t have to enforce a hard border. However the MFN consequences are that we can’t charge anyone in the world tariffs for anything because if we did any country can go to the WTO and insist that we offer the same tariff deal to them as we do to the EU which would be zero if it’s an open border. But all countries could charge us full WTO rates. The good news is that we’d get cheap trainers but the bad news is that millions of manufacturing and agricultural jobs would go because we couldn’t compete.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Its clear but still wrong.

Checks on goods will be done at source and the ports and customs and tariffs applied.

The GFA will not break down because of it either although i cant say the same if those involved with power sharing dont get their acts together although over 2 years of direct rule and them not being able to do that hasn't meant a return to the troubles.# so maybe, just maybe the vast majority have moved on and left all that behind.

Bingo bongo.

They have argued oh the troubles will return with brexit its bollox . Total bollox. Stormont is the key.

What we are talking about is goods passing through one territory to another. Eg Goods pass from Australia to the uk and we don’t have a border how does that work?

Checks that’s how and that’s what will happen in Ireland and the good people of the north and south will continue to go back and forth as normal.

 

[Ban-jani]

Dublin said no such thing.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...-border-gives-dup-much-to-chew-over-l65586dw0


Actually they have.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

What are you talking about here?

Seriously what does that even mean?

Do you honestly think I was suggesting people have to travel to the north/south of Ireland via a boat off the coast?

That is hilarious.

I’m talking about the customs checks between Ireland and the UK. Rather than the border to the UK being in-between Ireland and NI, it will be between Northern Ireland and Britain, via the sea, as Britain and France does now.

Is that now clear?

Mmmm...a sea border between NI and the UK policed by NI and the UK? I can envisage a very very simple solution to that.

 

[Ban-jani]

So what’s your point. How do we deal with trade between north and south ?

By the way you can’t say by a border because there isn’t going to be one,

NI separates from the rest of the UK and therefore the checks are done between us and the whole of Ireland, through ports, as we do with France.

The DUP aren’t happy about it, as you can imagine.

Again, you’re wrong, you can’t just wish Customs checks away.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-49060801

 

[Ban-jani]

Mmmm...a sea border between NI and the UK policed by NI and the UK? I can envisage a very very simple solution to that.

It would be a sea border with the UK and the rest of the world, not just NI.

And we wouldn’t be able to go light, as per Most Favoured Nation.

I’ll say this a million times if I have to.

 

[blueinsa]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...-border-gives-dup-much-to-chew-over-l65586dw0


Actually they have.

Behind a paywall so no idea what it is saying?

 

[BobKowalski]

Bingo bongo.

They have argued oh the troubles will return with brexit its bollox . Total bollox. Stormont is the key.

What we are talking about is goods passing through one territory to another. Eg Goods pass from Australia to the uk and we don’t have a border how does that work?

Checks that’s how and that’s what will happen in Ireland and the good people of the north and south will continue to go back and forth as normal.

We do have a border with Australia. It’s a sea border. And custom checks are made at ports. On the land border between France and Switzerland checks are made at custom points on the border. This does not apply to people as there is free movement but you can still be stopped and your vehicle searched. The border counties in the North is Sinn Fein country and the people will not accept custom checks at the border nor any infrastructure at the border or even away from the border if past experience is any guide.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

NI separates from the rest of the UK and therefore the checks are done between us and the whole of Ireland, through ports, as we do with France.

The DUP aren’t happy about it, as you can imagine.

Again, you’re wrong, you can’t just wish Customs checks away.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-49060801

I am not I have said there will be just not via a hard border . There will be customs checks .

I couldn’t give a fuck about what the dup think

 

[blueinsa]

We do have a border with Australia. It’s a sea border. And custom checks are made at ports. On the land border between France and Switzerland checks are made at custom points on the border. This does not apply to people as there is free movement but you can still be stopped and your vehicle searched. The border counties in the North is Sinn Fein country and the people will not accept custom checks at the border nor any infrastructure at the border or even away from the border if past experience is any guide.

Northern Ireland is part of the UK.

Goods will be checked in the UK and Ireland.

The CTA which has been around since 1922 so no thanks to the EU for that will still apply.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

We do have a border with Australia. It’s a sea border. And custom checks are made at ports. On the land border between France and Switzerland checks are made at custom points on the border. This does not apply to people as there is free movement but you can still be stopped and your vehicle searched. The border counties in the North is Sinn Fein country and the people will not accept custom checks at the border nor any infrastructure at the border or even away from the border if past experience is any guide.

So in Ireland there is currently no border checks on goods coming from anywhere in the world into or out of Ireland because Sinn Fein don’t like it?

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Northern Ireland is part of the UK.

Goods will be checked in the UK and Ireland.

The CTA which has been around since 1922 so no thanks to the EU for that will still apply.

It’s bonkers isn’t it. They have lost the hard border argument so they are now saying there can’t be any customs checks whatsoever as if Ireland north and south don’t currently have any customs checks or customs officials

 

[Ban-jani]

Northern Ireland is part of the UK.

Goods will be checked in the UK and Ireland.

The CTA which has been around since 1922 so no thanks to the EU for that will still apply.

I beg you to re read what he wrote and take it in.

 

[Ban-jani]

It’s bonkers isn’t it. They have lost the hard border argument so they are now saying there can’t be any customs checks whatsoever as if Ireland north and south don’t currently have any customs checks or customs officials

No we haven’t, we’ve proved you wrong time and time again and you just say “no, not having it”.

Even in Switzerland, where they’re in Schengen and have free movement to the point of abolishing passport checks, you still have some infrastructure.

We won’t have freedom of movement with the EU and won’t be in the Single Market so naturally, whatever they have in Switzerland, will be less than what we’ll have to have.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Bingo bongo.

They have argued oh the troubles will return with brexit its bollox . Total bollox. Stormont is the key.

What we are talking about is goods passing through one territory to another. Eg Goods pass from Australia to the uk and we don’t have a border how does that work?

Checks that’s how and that’s what will happen in Ireland and the good people of the north and south will continue to go back and forth as normal.

You can't trade without laws / rules .... and to enforce those laws and rules there has to a customs check usually done at the border..... If we just send goods in without checking for quality / taxes due ..... they will complain and win to the WTO (btw its called smuggling). The Eu are quite within their right to insist that anything entering their trade zone should reach the bar that they have set as we will do if and when we leave the Single Market.... and they have been flexible in agreeing to Mays proposal about a back stop in the sea (just a shame she didn't agree it with the DUP first) .

The Torys are in such a disarray about this that they are actually voting against something their party proposed in the first place and the Eu were graceful enough to accommodate.

 

[blueinsa]

No we haven’t, we’ve proved you wrong time and time again and you just say “no, not having it”.

Even in Switzerland, where they’re in Schengen and have free movement to the point of abolishing passport checks, you still have some infrastructure.

We won’t have freedom of movement with the EU and won’t be in the Single Market so naturally, whatever they have in Switzerland, will be less than what we’ll have to have.

So who is going to build this border?

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

No we haven’t, we’ve proved you wrong time and time again and you just say “no, not having it”.

Even in Switzerland, where they’re in Schengen and have free movement to the point of abolishing passport checks, you still have some infrastructure.

We won’t have freedom of movement with the EU and won’t be in the Single Market so naturally, whatever they have in Switzerland, will be less than what we’ll have to have.

What are you talking about there isn’t going to be a hard border, how many more times.

What Switzerland does is for the Swiss what we do is for us and Ireland and both of us have said we won’t build one. End of.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

You can't trade without laws / rules .... and to enforce those laws and rules there has to a customs check usually done at the border..... If we just send goods in without checking for quality / taxes due ..... they will complain and win to the WTO (btw its called smuggling). The Eu are quite within their right to insist that anything entering their trade zone should reach the bar that they have set as we will do if and when we leave the Single Market.... and they have been flexible in agreeing to Mays proposal about a back stop in the sea (just a shame she didn't agree it with the DUP first) .

The Torys are in such a disarray about this that they are actually voting against something their party proposed in the first place and the Eu were graceful enough to accommodate.

Are you debating with me or bob?

Bob said Sinn Fein won’t have it?

Are you arguing for a border ?

 

[hgblue]

A list of approved suppliers, a two year transistion to allow businesses to register, on site inspections and intelligence led checks carried out away from the border.

 

[BobKowalski]

Northern Ireland is part of the UK.

Goods will be checked in the UK and Ireland.

The CTA which has been around since 1922 so no thanks to the EU for that will still apply.

Yes it is. And there are checks between NI and mainland Britain currently with respect to animals. There are different laws between NI and mainland Britain. NI has gradually grown more integrated with the Republic (electricity for example) so even as part of the U.K. it also is seperate. The CTA applies to people not goods. But if there is a customs land border than vehicles will be stopped and checked and that means by extension people as well.

However any land border policy or system needs the buy in of the people living and working alongside the border and that is going to be ‘problematic’ given it’s history and current political makeup.

The solution is the current status quo, which the people of NI voted for, or a customs border in the Irish Sea to complement the current border checks.