Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese
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I don't think via towards remain counts as bias any more than voting to leave counts.
Another new Brexit thread
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Double that for readership.
Apart from getting a balanced audience on Question Time....
west didsblue
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40 million for the Mirror and Guardian combined. I would argue that the BBC is unbiased and actually does too much to demonstrate its impartial credentials by giving the likes of Farage too much coverage.
Guardian weekend cartoon. Larry the Downing St cat catsplaining the role to Johnson's new dog:
Your job is to act as a strategic media distraction at the epicentre of power during a moment of unprecedented national crisis following centuries of imperial expansion, collapse, financial meltdown, vicious austerity and the subsequent peddling of a salvation myth by liars and criminals to an angry nation sliding into the abyss.
Your job is to act as a strategic media distraction at the epicentre of power during a moment of unprecedented national crisis following centuries of imperial expansion, collapse, financial meltdown, vicious austerity and the subsequent peddling of a salvation myth by liars and criminals to an angry nation sliding into the abyss.
With the bbc it’s a soft bias. If you were to read transcripts of their interviews on a range of subjects they would generally come across as fairly unbiased. But the tone and body language of the interviewers is often anything but.
East Level 2
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That will be the same BBC that constantly gives air-time to Farage?
west didsblue
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Didn’t you know Farage was a Remainer. He was the original proponent of a 2nd ref even before the first one happened and called the referendum for Remain in the minutes after it finished. His gravy train would hit the buffers if we actually left. He just comes across as a slimy frog faced fascist to put people off voting for Brexit.
George Hannah
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I agree, the BBC is consistently and clearly pro-remain across its programming and platforms but the bias is graded. Flagship political interviewers such as Marr, Maitless and Neil are all pretty aggressive in style and have usually been relentessly hostile to Leavers but this has been latterly reinforced by BoJos's proroguing, purifying and porkie promoting ways. The softer verbal bias on news bulletins etc may be less pronounced but picture editors are given full license for negative association of Brexit with a plentiful range of footage from humorous or embarassing public confrontations to right wing extremist incidents. In contrast the highly organised and ubiquitous disruption of pro Brexit activists is usually portrayed as the good natured entitlement of well behaved, concerned citizens.
johnnytapia
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What else would it mean?
gordondaviesmoustache
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You tell me, you're the expert!
johnnytapia
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That’s where the Remain campaign came unstuck. The belief that the EU wasn’t an issue. It was and this was proven by the high referendum turnout. Compare to the referendum on AV, which, given the low turnout wasn’t an issue the people thought or cared about. I knew a lot about the EU before 2016, I knew a lot in 2016 and I know a lot now. I’m greatly interested in politics. I find it fascinating and I doubt there’l be a more interesting political era in my lifetime than the one we’re currently experiencing. Just when it seems things can’t get more confusing, surreal, something new comes along. I never thought the LibDems could be a potential party of government but I think Swinson has put the cat amongst the parliamentary pigeons by coming out cleanly and clearly for staying. That sort of thing is happning almost daily, new twists, new turns.
I accept, given your post, that you weren’t meant to be condescending. I do think though you're massively underestimating how many people saw/see the EU as an imprtant issue.
And I think it was absolutely right that we got to vote on membership.
johnnytapia
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It’s a portmanteau of Britain and Exit, hence Brexit. Happy to help, but would have thought you’d know this.
mancity2012_eamo
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May you live in interesting times - as the Chinese say.
gordondaviesmoustache
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Loving your use of the word 'portmanteau'!
dave_blue12
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No one was concerned about the EU until the propagandists got to work. The Referendum was a strategy by Cameron to control the Tory extremists. It was not a justifiable response to a groundswell of public concern, as there was none.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12...t-the-uk-public-cares-about-the-most/10615054
George Hannah
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Rascal
El Presidente
Before Cameron promised referendum, it wasn't a big issue with the general public, it was an issue in his party. He promised it in an attempt to unify his party so he could cling to power, I think I am right in saying the EU was about 12th in the priorities of voters at that time. Cameron was under pressure from his parties nutjobs and they were the same nutjobs that Major had called his bastards, committed anti-EU fanatics for years, but mostly dismissed as cranks. I am not doubting it became an issue but if Cameron had not tried to soothe his nutjobs it would never have been an issue. From that promise of his sprung the events we have witnessed. Cameron then went even further and called UKIP which was a small fringe party a mix of fruitcakes and racists, which instead of shutting them down, gave them unwarranted public exposure and we began to see Farage on everything from Question Time to Tom and Jerry as the BBC tried to be "balanced" as everybody knows the views of fruitcakes and racists should treated with the equivalence as mainstream politicians, right!! Once Cameron had made that fateful decision there was no stopping it and it emboldened his nutjobs who saw their fantasies might be realised after years of them mostly being ridiculed as not rights, cranks, fools and fantasists.
The complacency of Cameron and the complicitness of Osborne in the whole charade showed astounding arrogance, they never thought they would lose, so they never planned for anything to be in place for that eventuality. Stunning incompetence on their behalf. They never understood that the damage they had inflicthatted through their needless austerity measures would have the effect of people wanting change and posters wanting to punish them for their stupidity.
From 12th in priority they had acted with such idiocy that Brexit became the number 1 issue but they still acted with total arrogance and never sold the EU to the people which allowed the leave campaign to act almost unopposed. That coupled with the lack of political acumen in the setting of the referendums parameters has led to the huge divisions we are now seeing today.
I am a person who is ideologically opposed to referendums, they are contrary to our system of representative democracy and it was always going to end up in huge clusterfuck as it threatened the constitutional basis that we have lived under for generations. That comes to down to Cameron, he never thought he could lose as he had never lost in his life and was over confident, arrogant and complacent.
Whilst you think it was right you got a vote on membership I have to say that is fine but the vote was enacted for all the wrong reasons, it was never about the EU, it was always about Cameron's desire for power and his need to unify his party so it enabled that power to remain with him whilst at the same time neutering UKIP because he saw them as a threat to his hold on power.
Cameron will undoubtedly go down is history as a dreadful Prime Minister as he recklessly gambled his countries future for the sake of his parties future and his own absolutist need for power. Only a person so totally up his own arse and so self entitled would have ever considered himself so untouchable.
His actions are responsible for the utter chaos we have now, he is responsible for Johnson, for Farage, for Corbyn, For Swinson, for the SNP and the DUP as he unleashed the demons of English Nationalism and English exceptionalism onto the nation and for that he should never be forgiven.
As it stands now, his actions have put us in a place where even our own democracy is in danger and rather than lance the boil on the Tory backside he helped ferment the fervour of the nutjobs and given all that has happened since there is in my opinion only one solution that is tenable and that is to leave and face the consequences of what ever that may bring.
Congratulations call me Dave, you royally fucked up our country up but its alright has you have a cosy little caravan in which to spend your days, whilst the rest of us face a very uncertain future, threats to our democracy and a fucking madman in charge.
You utter twat.
It became an issue during the campaign when the hysteria started and that was drummed up by those leading both campaigns. Prior to 2015 all the data shows that nobody gave a toss about the EU, well the vast majority didn’t.
It was something like less than 5% thought the membership of the EU was a key part of British politics, now it’s over 80% and the sharp change was because our politicians, suddenly, for mostly their own careers, told us we needed to take it seriously and vote.
I’m not just blaming the leave campaign, although they behaved appallingly, I’m saying Westminster and the more specifically the Tory Party, were totally short sighted and selfish in putting the vote forward and thrusting their internal issues onto the public.
You know I’m out for remaining, that’s obvious to anyone who has spent 5 mins in this sub-forum and think leaving is a terrible idea, you’ll be surprised to know though that I didn’t actually know which way I was going to vote up until the final week of the referendum.
I too was interested in politics, very much so, I just didn’t ever focus on the EU. For me it was the argument between left, right and centre, the NHS, education, austerity etc. that I focussed on and I didn’t see the EU massively influencing anything. I was of course naive as EU membership makes a huge difference to our economy but my point is that the EU aren’t and haven’t been what’s wrong with our country.
Now you’re entitled to want to leave that’s fine, just as I’m entitled to want to remain, I just feel the nature in which the vote was rushed, within a year of Cameron getting a majority and the misinformation at the time in 2016, is one of the biggest disgraces in British political history.
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