Yet Govt policy plays its part. We know this because the Govt is pledging to help businesses financially impacted by Brexit. Do Thomas Cook qualify? Would Thomas Cook have survived if the impact of currency devaluation driven by Govt policy had not happened?
Was this not always though the logical outcome?There will be a customs border. Johnson is currently proposing plans that will see elements of a land border and sea border as well as accepting NI regulatory alignment with the EU on Agri goods. If the U.K. starts to diverge from EU regulatory standards as Johnson wants, ie lower, then the border will get harder. The U.K. now accepts that there will be a border just as we now accept we can’t have the same degree of frictionless trade. May’s ambition for no physical border and to replicate the frictionless trade we currently enjoy have been abandoned.
So explain how Dart and its other competitors are in a different sector and why they prospered in exactly the same conditions as TC failed.Bob makes a valid point. It would be unfair to lump the performance of various company's in various sectors together in terms of performance now and post brexit as if it was just a matter of bussiness excellence. Yours is a lazy argument imho that dodges the complexity regarding economics for Brexit.
TC posted half-yearly losses of £1.5 billion back in May. Bosses have taken £30 million out of the company over the past few years. I think it's fair to say that currency devaluations due to the Brexit vote are only a minor contributor to the main issues at Thomas Cook, which many are putting down to bad management and mismanagement. In any case, the pound to Euro rate - as shit as it is - is still better than it was at the height of the global banking crisis.
I also love how Brexit is explained away with ‘yeah ok it’s shit but it’s not as shit as when the global economy was melting’. What happened to those sunlit uplands we were promised? Did Thomas Cook forget to reserve those packages in paradise?
So explain how Dart and its other competitors are in a different sector and why they prospered in exactly the same conditions as TC failed.
Come on get flapping FD - no slacking otherwise its the orange sauce for you.
Was this not always though the logical outcome?
Question is what constitutes a border - it does have to resemble checkpoint Charlie
Seems only common sense to me - although many people have sought to avoid saying it
Complexity goes far beyond just simply what sector company's are in when it comes to airlines in the context of Brexit. Basicly, there is no way based on youre impression of "some are just better than others" to guage to what extend different airlines are exposed to the consequences of Brexit, but it's very rational to consider that some will be more exposed than others.
The current Morning Star view on Brexit
"JOHNSON’S visit to Brussels underlines the need for a clear left alternative on the EU.
Johnson may indeed get a deal. The EU economy is teetering towards recession. Germany’s industrial output is 5 per cent down on that a year ago and it will be German exports that will take the biggest hit if Britain leaves without a deal.
But the question remains: what kind of deal?
If it is Theresa May’s deal with Irish border controls removed and agricultural standards in the North of Ireland maintained in harmony with those in the South, there still remain the commitments given in the accompanying Withdrawal Declaration for Britain to adopt the pro-business, neoliberal competition laws of the EU single market
On the other hand, if Johnson does not get a deal, it is clear that every effort will be made to engineer a caretaker government to displace Johnson and block any kind of exit settlement with the EU.
The Liberal Democrats under Jo Swinson have indicated their intention to work both with dissident Conservatives and a Labour majority leader as long as it is not Jeremy Corbyn.
They have also made clear their total contempt for any kind of democracy by announcing that they would, in government, scrap the referendum result without holding a further referendum.
Even forgetting their previous abandonment of election promises by joining David Cameron’s austerity government in 2010 — with Swinson becoming a junior employment minister pushing through anti-trade union legislation — this should make them out of bounds for any member of the Labour Party.
Disagreeing with the referendum result, or even wanting a second, is one thing. Just scrapping it is another. They may be Liberals. They are certainly not democrats.
This is why there must be a left alternative. And of course there is one. Jeremy Corbyn has repeatedly advanced it. Britain should remain aligned to the EU single market in terms of environment, health, food and employment standards but not accept the EU’s neoliberal competition terms.
Corbyn lays down this condition in order to protect Labour’s past election commitments. The EU’s competition terms would block almost every progressive element of Labour’s programme for change: comprehensive pubic ownership, state aid, a state investment bank to take stakes in key companies, the proactive use of public procurement for regional development and, not least, mandatory sectoral collective bargaining.
Take this away and Labour would indeed be unelectable. The current plots to create a centrist caretaker government would seem to have as much to do with ending the prospect of a left-led Labour government as about reversing the result of the EU referendum.
Trade unionists in particular should be aware of the consequences. Membership of the EU does not guarantee employment rights.
Today’s report from the Resolution Foundation showed that. The shockingly large number of workers not receiving their statutory rights is closely related to the low level of collective bargaining, now below 30 per cent. Britain has been in the EU for over 40 years.
In fact, of course, the EU actively discourages collective bargaining. Its 2012 document Labour Movement Developments details the interventions required to reduce the “wage-setting power” of trade unions.
The past seven years have seen the consequences. In Greece, under EU debt supervision, collective bargaining has declined from 80 per cent to 20 per cent. The decline in Portugal, in similar circumstances, has been almost as severe.
This is why the trade union movement needs to speak out. There is a left alternative. It must be defended.
Otherwise the right, whether represented by Johnson or by Swinson and her right-wing Labour allies, will win"
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/e/we-must-speak-out-and-defend-left-alternative-eu-corbynism
I think you leavers will approve, surely.
TC is not a horse to be riding in that argument, there are many better bets still heading for the glue factory unless a no deal is stopped.I also love how Brexit is explained away with ‘yeah ok it’s shit but it’s not as shit as when the global economy was melting’. What happened to those sunlit uplands we were promised? Did Thomas Cook forget to reserve those packages in paradise?
Was this not always though the logical outcome?
Question is what constitutes a border - it does have to resemble checkpoint Charlie
Seems only common sense to me - although many people have sought to avoid saying it
Yep - we all know this - or at least should do..Retaining NI in a NI backstop was initially proposed by the EU in 2017 and is their preferred option. Dublin would also be happy. Not happy will be the DUP and Unionists in NI. For any solution to work it will need Unionist and Nationalist consent. Dual consent is at the heart of the GFA.
Bob, the point is that Brexit isn't the sole reason that Thomas Cook have gone bust, and it isn't the main reason either, and I'm sure you're not daft enough to think it is.
I booked a holiday with TC back in August 2016 at short notice to Kefalonia. It cost us around £200 each for flights, transfers, and 7 nights accomodation. That's a fucking ridiculously cheap price and while it was a great deal for me and the other half, there's no way in a million years they were making a profit on that, and in all probably were making a substantial loss. That's not how you run a business mate.
TC is not horse to be riding in that argument, there are many better bets still heading for the glue factory unless a no deal is stopped.
Did you quack that while submerged?Complexity goes far beyond just simply what sector company's are in when it comes to airlines in the context of Brexit. Basicly, there is no way based on youre impression of "some are just better than others" to guage to what extend different airlines are exposed to the consequences of Brexit, but it's very rational to consider that some will be more exposed than others.
Fazzakerley.It's being discussed in the TC thread if you fancy nipping over. Shit management and mismanagement seems to be the consensus
The level of stupidity in that article is horrific.
So the LibDems weren’t behaving democratically in 2010 when the were the junior partner in a coalition and had to scrap some of their manifesto policies but now if they win a majority and enact their main policy they’re also undemocratic.
Make your fucking mind up Mr journalist.
As my comment was about Scottish independence why are you asking me about Brexit?Oh - please do ensure that the forum benefits from the quality of your analysis
Bring it on - let's see an example of such detailed analysis. It is not just me - I am sure that the entire forum is waiting with bated breath to hear your profound asessments
You are normally just full of insults and ridicule - generally reduced to only offering snide and cheap shots - so this is your chance to show you have some substance
So - set out what - in your opinion - are the Top 10 disadvantages to the UK leaving the EU and we can take it from there, but to help you get started:
What about the importance of maintaining your existing export markets?
What about the importance of trading with those countries geographically close to you - remember the importance of JIT?
What about the ability to cross unhindered across borders?
What about settlement of the WA and associated costs before commencing a trade deal?
What about unravelling 40 years (let alone a lot more) of close working/integration?
Come on - you can do more than just make cheap shots - as Delia would say:
'Let's be having you....'
If you do/can not - that you will have confirmed sooooo much
An interesting take on it.
I thought it would be valuable to get the lexit view on here as it is rarely mentioned and as I would have been a lexiteer it encapsulates much of what I believe to be true.
Sadly its not the Labour parties position, if it was I think it would be in Government come the next election as it resonates.