I disagree, respectfully.
It’s chaos at the moment but this is solely down to one party and one party only and they should never ever see Downing St again for it.
Your last line has actually got me, good point.
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Another new Brexit thread
- Thread starter Ric
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I disagree, respectfully.
It’s chaos at the moment but this is solely down to one party and one party only and they should never ever see Downing St again for it.
Your last line has actually got me, good point.
yerwot?
Well-Known Member
Or Abbott and Leadsom
Or Gardner and Mogg
If it’s true that we get the politicians we deserve then we must be a right load of horrible bastards........
NAH, just a glib phrase with not a trace of evidence, not enough horrible bastards to ever deserve the last thirty years....posters moaning about the lack of "compromise" have not grasped the impossibility of a compromise, what the brexit/far right want is absolute anathema to those who believe that the EU is the only safe option for the VAST majority of UK citizens. The latest naked power-grab by the government, to dismiss parliament as nothing more than an irrelevance, to be treated as a noisy child and sent to the naughty step, would have been unthinkable, even in the darkest days of the thatcher slash and burn years. The fanatical insistence that the ref. was "democratic" is an impenetrable barrier to a any form of compromise, the constant "leave means leave" is another. The carefully scripted threat of "no deal", designed to make a deal seem more attractive; along with "people just want it over with", belong with the rest of the lies that the media are responsible for. Brexits know that this is the last-chance saloon, that corbyn is their greatest asset, never to be repeated, that trying to force a GE is their only straw, desperation is palpable. A cornered rat is more dangerous than one with a bolt-hole, johnson and his billionaire backers are in a corner, and more vicious than any rat. Brace...Brace...Brace...
bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
Sorry but if you think that there is anything that resembles democracy in this country you are utterly deluded. It is a basket case. An oversized banana republic heading to hell at a pace that would impress Usain Bolt.
There is not one party that is worth pissing on if on fire.
Concentration camp in Cheshire, ever been to fucking Crewe?
Dear oh dear oh dear.
Do you live in the UK? Presumably you have an MP? That Mp will be independent or affiliated to one of the major parties? Come the next General Election there will be a number of candidates standing in the seat where you live? - I could go on but by now you should be recognising a democracy.
You stated you were more wedded to democracy than wedded to Brexit, so I asked which form of democracy are you wedded to? I think that's reasonable.
Your response implies to me you are more wedded to Brexit than than you state.
How the referendum should have been run and the question asked should be of great concern to you as a believer in democracy. As it stands Parliament can still respect the result by negotiating a deal and putting that to the people. The majority voted to leave, here is what leave actually looks like, do you still want to go ahead? That is democracy in action.
I don't think your examples of a byelection and GE work here, someone more learned than me on the topic may well set me straight.
A more apt, if extreme example would be if the referendum was on the Death Penalty with a yes or no answer. Yes wins but parliament can't decide on what the death penalty should be implemented for. An extremist section of the Government in charge gains influence and pushes for death for all crimes committed (this scenario's version of a no deal).
If you had voted yes on the presumption of it being only introduced for 1st degree murder as that what was campaigned for, would you still respect the result and state you knew what you were voting for?
Stating people have won and lost (especially when you don't know what it is that has been won) adds nothing and shuts down the debate.
Actually that's a good question, what is it that has been won? What does winning look like to you? Do you think what winning looks like to you is achievable? and finally do you believe that all those who voted leave shame the same opinion as you as to what winning looks like?
For a bit of fun; you state that everyone knew the rules of the referendum, so they knew it wasn't legally binding (yes MPs said they'd respect the result) and can't complain if parliament decides to just put Brexit in the bin ;-)
Great post.
purplenose
Well-Known Member
I disagree, respectfully.
It’s chaos at the moment but this is solely down to one party and one party only and they should never ever see Downing St again for it.
Your last line has actually got me, good point.
Chaos you say? Understatement if ever there was.
We stopped being a democracy when Thatcher bowled into town and turned us into a Police state/dictatorship. With Blair there was brief hope but that soon was exposed for what it was and since then we have had Cameron.
I totally agree that the Tories should never be in office again and I am happy to say anyone who votes for them is a bellend. Likewise sadly the same can be said for Labour and anyone who votes for them particularly under Corbyn whom would be worse than Thatcher at the opposite end of the scale.
So tell me when we last were a true democracy with a decent society? If you can remember you are older than me.
This country is fucked, divided, driven by greed and selfishness. I cannot see one single party that has any potential whatsoever to change that. Certainly not Labour or the Tories and as for the Lib Dems who are about as much use as a one legged man in an arse kicking competition.
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west didsblue
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If our unelected PM manages to force a No Deal Brexit against the will of our elected representatives, then you will have a point. Fortunately our democratic institutions are doing their job, and hopefully will see it through.Sorry but if you think that there is anything that resembles democracy in this country you are utterly deluded. It is a basket case. An oversized banana republic heading to hell at a pace that would impress Usain Bolt.
There is not one party that is worth pissing on if on fire.
Concentration camp in Cheshire, ever been to fucking Crewe?
purplenose
Well-Known Member
Dear oh dear oh dear.
Do you live in the UK? Presumably you have an MP? That Mp will be independent or affiliated to one of the major parties? Come the next General Election there will be a number of candidates standing in the seat where you live? - I could go on but by now you should be recognising a democracy.
Where and for whom are you standing?
west didsblue
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Ask @Chippy_boy. He said he’d support him continuing as PM.So a female MP says his choice of words is the same as in the death threats she gets, and he calls her concerns humbug.
How can anyone defend this amoral man?
purplenose
Well-Known Member
If our unelected PM manages to force a No Deal Brexit against the will of our elected representatives, then you will have a point. Fortunately our democratic institutions are doing their job, and hopefully will see it through.
Democratic instituitions? Do you mean self serving and protectionist cartels?
No love for our unelected buffoon here either.
bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
Where and for whom are you standing?
why would that be relevant?
purplenose
Well-Known Member
why would that be relevant?
You must be to come out with such rubbish or at least a paid up member of one of these rotten institutions.
bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
You must be to come out with such rubbish or at least a paid up member of one of these rotten institutions.
I never suggested I was standing in any election. I merely pointed out the stupidity of your assertion that there is nothing resembling democracy in the country by pointing out the "democratic pyramid" that exists. I suspect what you meant ( childishly ) was that there is nothing resembling democracy because things are not going your way. I can accept you may be upset but to suggest that makes this a banana republic is frankly pathetic. I assume you won't be voting again because all chances to exercise your vote are rigged anyway?
purplenose
Well-Known Member
I never suggested I was standing in any election. I merely pointed out the stupidity of your assertion that there is nothing resembling democracy in the country by pointing out the "democratic pyramid" that exists. I suspect what you meant ( childishly ) was that there is nothing resembling democracy because things are not going your way. I can accept you may be upset but to suggest that makes this a banana republic is frankly pathetic. I assume you won't be voting again because all chances to exercise your vote are rigged anyway?
The democratic pyramid is not particularly democratic though is it. As many would point out we once again have an unelected Prime minister for starters.
As for going my way that really is not relevant at all, infact in some respects that is infact not the case anyway.
I dont think counting is rigged at all, rather those votes being counted having been gained by complete lies told to foolish people who believe them. Many of those voters being quite old enough too know better.
As things currently stand I will be spoiling my paper, I will not simply not bother to show up at the polling station. To put it bluntly I have no belief faith or confidence in any of the current political offerings and will not endorse any of them. I have no respect for any of them or indeed anyone who votes for them.
I would however vote in a second referendum which I believe is the least damaging way to try to break the impasse created by the current corrupt bunch of inept wankers that have the bare faced cheek to call themselves politicians.
So a female MP says his choice of words is the same as in the death threats she gets, and he calls her concerns humbug.
How can anyone defend this amoral man?
i wouldn't expect any different from that piece of shit, but the whole show today has just angered me against the tories more than i thought i could. i mean, i already knew they weren't exactly my favourites, but the brazen behaviour today was disgraceful.
bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
The democratic pyramid is not particularly democratic though is it. As many would point out we once again have an unelected Prime minister for starters.
As for going my way that really is not relevant at all, infact in some respects that is infact not the case anyway.
I dont think counting is rigged at all, rather those votes being counted having been gained by complete lies told to foolish people who believe them. Many of those voters being quite old enough too know better.
As things currently stand I will be spoiling my paper, I will not simply not bother to show up at the polling station. To put it bluntly I have no belief faith or confidence in any of the current political offerings and will not endorse any of them. I have no respect for any of them or indeed anyone who votes for them.
I would however vote in a second referendum which I believe is the least damaging way to try to break the impasse created by the current corrupt bunch of inept wankers that have the bare faced cheek to call themselves politicians.
Fair enough - thats not clearly the point you made originally though however now I understand where you are coming from though I don't entirely agree.
B
B
blueinsa
Guest
Great post.
Course it was, he is a remainer.
Chaos you say? Understatement if ever there was.
We stopped being a democracy when Thatcher bowled into town and turned us into a Police state/dictatorship. With Blair there was brief hope but that soon was exposed for what it was and since then we have had Cameron.
I totally agree that the Tories should never be in office again and I am happy to say anyone who votes for them is a bellend. Likewise sadly the same can be said for Labour and anyone who votes for them particularly under Corbyn whom would be worse than Thatcher at the opposite end of the scale.
So tell me when we last were a true democracy with a decent society? If you can remember you are older than me.
This country is fucked, divided, driven by greed and selfishness. I cannot see one single party that has any potential whatsoever to change that. Certainly not Labour or the Tories and as for the Lib Dems who are about as much use as a one legged man in an arse kicking competition.
"So tell me when we last were a true democracy with a decent society."
Obvious.
1979, before Thatcher was elected and said there was no such thing as society.
Ifwecouldjust.......
Well-Known Member
I considered Corbyn unelectable, but these people are pushing at the boundaries of decency day after day & if left unchecked, are likely to drive us back to the 1930s.
They are not just economically dangerous they are dangerous for the whole of society.
Ive read the Labour manifesto .... and whilst Im not keen on Corbyn there's not one policy out of over 100 that I would disagree with. Im voting based on policies not personalities.
Ifwecouldjust.......
Well-Known Member
We can have an election and a new government before then and the Lib dems can revoke or labour can do whatever they want if they win
Doesn't work like that .... the day of the GE is the gift of the PM ... If a vote for a GE gets passed ...all Johnson has to do is call the election for November. Parliament shuts down and will be unable to act (apply for an extension) hence we end up with the Tory wet dream of a hard Brexit. This is why Labour won't agree to it until we are sure a no deal is off the table / Johnson puts a new deal on the table / Article 50 is revoked or an extension is applied for.
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