They were hoping that the Supreme Court ruling would hurt the Tories opinion poll rating, it went up. They were hoping that forcing an extension request would hurt the Tories opinion poll rating, it's gone up again. If they're pinning their hopes on us not leaving on 31st October, they're sadly mistaken. Boris is playing them like a cheap fiddle, the public know he's doing his best to leave on time, and they know who is to blame if we don't.
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Another new Brexit thread
- Thread starter Ric
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dave_blue12
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With all due respect mate you can get stuffed.
All you ever say is “in your opinion”, “you think that”, “I don’t think that” and copy and paste Twitter posts, which I don’t necessarily mind but don’t have a pop at me, for not giving a reasoned argument, when I have already and your reply wasn’t a reasoned argument.
I'm interested in why you think that voting for this deal will move things on and heal the divisions. I must have missed your reasons and if so apologies.
My insticts are it won't and speaking for myself I know it won't.
We are where we are through cheating and dishonesty, why the fuck would I accept it.
1.618034
Well-Known Member
This isn't going pass parliament. It wasn't really meant to.
When the progress motion fails today, or soon after, Johnson/Cummings will pull the Bill, blaming Parliament (obvs) and call for a GE.
Labour, now the extension request is in, will agree.
The EU grant the extension until that's over and we get another hung parliament and keep going around in circles.
When the progress motion fails today, or soon after, Johnson/Cummings will pull the Bill, blaming Parliament (obvs) and call for a GE.
Labour, now the extension request is in, will agree.
The EU grant the extension until that's over and we get another hung parliament and keep going around in circles.
aguero93:20
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Tbf the Lisbon Treaty had been drafted a good 6 months before being debated in the HOC and finalised 3 months before. MPs had plenty of time to look over it before it was tabled and nearly 2 years after passing it to ensure legislation was suitable before it came into effect. Johnson published this legislation yesterday wants fully through the house by tomorrow with it to come into effect a week later.The Lisbon treaty, far more detailed than this, was passed in 5 days.
Everybody can see what they're up to.
Bluemanc100
Well-Known Member
Take a bow son.....Seeing that his academic achievements resulted in failed A levels, it's truly remarkable that he has the reading
skills of a NASA computer, his eyeballs must move at a faster rate than an Uzi emptying its magazine.
George Hannah
Well-Known Member
because that's been the way of it since time began?'...We are where we are through cheating and dishonesty, why the fuck would I accept it.
I'm interested in why you think that voting for this deal will move things on and heal the divisions. I must have missed your reasons and if so apologies.
My insticts are it won't and speaking for myself I know it won't.
We are where we are through cheating and dishonesty, why the fuck would I accept it.
Because once it’s through the next stage is trade negotiations and both parties have said the idea of this WA and process will be to move onto a FTA, which will happen in the background.
I imagine when this has reached a certain point and it’s signed off we’ll have a General Election based on ‘normal policies’. This will likely all be done, with a new parliament, by 2021.
If we this deal doesn’t go through then we’ll likely still be in this position, with no WA, in 2021.
Bluemanc100
Well-Known Member
Quite startling when you realise what an estute leader @Labour have in charge... and here was me thinking he was nothing more than a professional protestor getting his string pulledThey were hoping that the Supreme Court ruling would hurt the Tories opinion poll rating, it went up. They were hoping that forcing an extension request would hurt the Tories opinion poll rating, it's gone up again. If they're pinning their hopes on us not leaving on 31st October, they're sadly mistaken. Boris is playing them like a cheap fiddle, the public know he's doing his best to leave on time, and they know who is to blame if we don't.
Bluemanc100
Well-Known Member
Not a chance of a hung parliament for me... wishful thinking from @Labour and Co.. I expect Mr Corbyn to have his arse handed to him on a platterThis isn't going pass parliament. It wasn't really meant to.
When the progress motion fails today, or soon after, Johnson/Cummings will pull the Bill, blaming Parliament (obvs) and call for a GE.
Labour, now the extension request is in, will agree.
The EU grant the extension until that's over and we get another hung parliament and keep going around in circles.
B
B
blueinsa
Guest
We should be leaving in 9 days time.
When I have a critical deadline at work I work 7am til 6pm all week and then sometimes into the weekends.
For an MP's salary of £80k a year I would read all 100 pages over and over, day and night, whatever it took.
Almost 3m people in Wales, NI and Scotland voted to leave so how can we advocate ignoring them in the interests of a minority?
Added together, more people in the UK voted to leave so the best way to preserve the union is to enact what the union has decided to do.
Please remember - without Welsh, Scottish or NI leave votes, leave would not have won.
Shhhhhhhhh, Scotland voted to remain or so they keep saying.
The Light Was Yellow Sir
Well-Known Member
Isn’t the FTA discussion stage when no-deal becomes the reality though?Because once it’s through the next stage is trade negotiations and both parties have said the idea of this WA and process will be to move onto a FTA, which will happen in the background.
I imagine when this has reached a certain point and it’s signed off we’ll have a General Election based on ‘normal policies’. This will likely all be done, with a new parliament, by 2021.
If we this deal doesn’t go through then we’ll likely still be in this position, with no WA, in 2021.
Ancient Citizen
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It would indeed be the mother and father of all chuckles.Oh how amusing it would be, when the other members of Parliament block their referendum result from leaving the UK union on the exact same "arguments" they have been raising in regards to brexit.
The sheer hypocrisy of it all.
'As this independence vote was taken without all the necessary information, and people were not fully informed
when they voted, we will need to discuss this in parliament for 3 and a half years, or maybe more, in order to
go through all the fine detail, after all this was a 300 year union.'
After this, if, and it's a big if, parliament can't find a way to implement what is a flawed vote, it will be put back to
the people, if we can get a majority in the house to do so, but there have already been 2550 amendments tabled, so it will take time.'
Saddleworth2
Well-Known Member
Not saying there is a simple solution mate because there isn’t one. Ignoring the issue is what happened though and that just fuels resentment. The GFA should have been the start point to a solution not an afterthought. Complex change needs complex and sophisticated stakeholder management. Instead we got May and Johnson.That's the problem really. We are a member of the EU as the UK, not as four separate nations. If you take the winning position as the default for each country, this means that you have the wishes of 16M votes for leave in Wales & England vs 2.1M votes for remain in Scotland & N Ireland. Very tricky situation but you can see a clear vote difference there.
Ancient Citizen
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What's the time needed for?The standard terms normally international treaties – and this is such a treaty, under law – must be before parliament for at least 21 sitting days in order to be ratified.
The Maastricht Treaty was given much longer.
I really cannot believe that Bercow allowing this especially when an extension has been requested and its only Johnson self imposed deadline that is driving this.
They've already decided that they won't vote for any deal, and Corbyn apparently read it all in the time it takes
to dig up one of his parsnips.
It's over two years since any poll showed a majority for Leave. On any choice between Remain and any one Leave deal (or no deal) maybe not a landslide but way more than a 52/48 margin.No-brainer
And there is an ever-growing whiff of desperation in the way that you and others are clinging to this possibility of a 2nd ref
There is a chance for you though- albeit a receding one.
Labour have played it so badly that they are now reluctant to go for a GE whilst Johnson could be on a platform of getting Brexit completed - they clearly think that they will lose against that ticket.
So they may work with the rest of the pro-EU Westminster majority to try and remove Brexit through a 2nd referendum first. FFS - could you have imagined that 18 months ago???? Corbyn and MacDonnell willing to put off a GE for 6-9 months through admission that they would lose!!
And what does that suggest about the outcome of a 2nd ref?
Why - it only seems 2 years ago that you were exulting in daily statements about the number of Leavers that would have died off and how Remain would get a landslide - you do not come across so confident recently
Seeing I want another referendum and you don't, you're the one bottling it.
A lot of people do not remotely trust JohnsonI think we can all agree that this piece of legislation is much more important and complex than the Benn Act
With that in mind, what is the rush? If something is worth doing, it’s worth doing right. And if it does benefit the country then there should be absolutely no objections to MPs from around the country reading it, considering it and making any objections and/or concerns known
You wouldn’t buy a house in 3 days so why rush something which is apparently the most important piece of Legislation in 50 years?
Please pardon a lot of Leavers if they hold the same view about the motives of Remainers at Westminster
Metal Biker
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Even managed to do so and reject it on those grounds before it was even released.What's the time needed for?
They've already decided that they won't vote for any deal, and Corbyn apparently read it all in the time it takes
to dig up one of his parsnips.
Ancient Citizen
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They should have gone for it, you're right, but Corbyn's never had to make a decision in his whole parliamentaryThey've fucked it IMO. I said weeks ago on here that I felt Labour's best chance of winning an election was to agree to one when Johnson put it out there. At that time, the Tories were all over the place and there was little sign of Johnson getting us a Brexit deal or even seriously negotiating one. But no, people on here were saying it was a trap and Corbyn shouldn't take the bait. Now I'm not saying they would've won the election but they'd have had a much better chance than they will if one was held next week or next month.
career, he's an obscure bottle chucker from the back benches. He's still at it now, there has never been a positive move
from him since he got his scrawny arse installed as leader, courtesy of Miliband's £3 a pop membership stunt.
The difference is that we all think Brexit is a disastrous and damaging mistake. They still do. I just refuse to join the new "it will be hugely damaging but people will moan if we don't leave" contingent.Haven't you spent 3 years on here emphasising that people can change their minds and that should be respected?
Nothing at all to do with Miller. Parliament itself demanded the meaningful vote(s).Given miller case which made it law that parliament have a vote on the deal the govt brings. Is bercow in contempt of court for not allowing it ?
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