Another new Brexit thread

[Len Rum]

There is something fundamental in what you are saying here - and it explains a lot IMO about the way some of the Remainers are unable to get over it.

I don't think that you have been on these threads throughout the 3 years or so - apologies if I have that wrong. If you had been you would have witnessed the cycle that a good number of the Remainers have gone through.

Following the initial period of grievance and anger the Remainers moved on into a long period of increasing confidence and eventually gloating that it was only a matter of time before Brexit was cancelled. There were no doubts - only weeks becoming months of increasing levels of hubris.

In the wider UK this was also evident - the likes of Soubry, Grieve, Benn and others were just enjoying their time in the limelight and milking it. Who could blame them - the incompetence of May and Robbins seemed to ensure that they had no reason to have any concerns. It was just a question of time and they - including Bluemoon's versions of Grieve and Soubry - could just luxuriate in holding court and pontificating.

Then - all of a sudden - against all odds and expectation - something comes along that shows a route out from under their cast iron certainty and over-bearing confidence.

And then - fuck - it has all accelerated and has since gone to hell in a hand-cart....

Corbyn and his team were so utterly fucking certain that they had it all under control and it was just a question of how and when they press the buttons......

And now - as you say - they are left considering perhaps they should have settled earlier - perhaps with May's deal - perhaps they are wondering why they did not take what they 'could have won' - when they could have done.

They and their equivalents on Bluemoon are now just - understandably - stumbling around in a daze and well, frankly - seriously butt-hurt​

Election day bottler gets hard again.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

Soft Brexit is utterly pointless and always has been.

I’ve never been in favour of it.

The UK being locked into EU legislation without having a say and without being able to trade on our own terms elsewhere, without the EU’s say so? All this without having a seat at the table?

Absolutely fucking not.

It’s remain or we properly leave, none of this half arsed shite.

I agree with that. However for lots of people who wanted to remain I’m surprised they didn’t push for that more as now we are going for a harder form of brexit

 

[Ban-jani]

I agree with that. However for lots of people who wanted to remain I’m surprised they didn’t push for that more as now we are going for a harder form of brexit

How’s it a harder form?

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Still waiting for an explanation of what this "ultra soft Brexit" was. Some real revisionism going on already - by the winners! As for "out of touch" you all know you'd have lost a second referendum.

Mays brexit was pretty soft and may very well have become 'ultra' soft by the time it had been amended and the final fta was done - had it gone through and she remained as PM. I actually think Boris may end up delivering a fairly soft Brexit in the end, but will be more successful at dressing it up as a hard brexit. The real risk of hard brexit now is probably that the EU will fanny about and not believe Boris is prepared to walk away with 'no deal' in a years time.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

How’s it a harder form?

Rather then mays deal, which would have been a soft brexit and Wed almost certainly be in the custome union. It’s now looking likely we are going for a canada style deal and much less aligned and further away

 

[Ban-jani]

Still waiting for an explanation of what this "ultra soft Brexit" was. Some real revisionism going on already - by the winners! As for "out of touch" you all know you'd have lost a second referendum.

An ultra soft Brexit is remaining within the Customs Union or Single Market.

As for your last line, that has to be one of the most naive statements I’ve ever read on here, considering the election we’ve just had.

And I’m a remainer.

 

[Ban-jani]

Rather then mays deal, which would have been a soft brexit and Wed almost certainly be in the custome union. It’s now looking likely we are going for a canada style deal and much less aligned and further away

Okay yes, it’s harder than May’s deal but it’s no more harder than what was promised by the then remain focused government in 2016.

The leaflet through my door said leave the Customs Union and Single Market.

This deal honours that.

 

[hilts]

I know brexit is going to be a great success and we'll all look back in a couple of years and wonder what all the fuss was about so the story linked below is probably irrelevant and in no way a sign of things to come and absolutley not ironic that customers of a certain pub chain with a leave advocating owner are up in arms because of a shortage of christmas delicacies which is because of a shortage of seasonal eu workers who we don't really rely on and anyway brexit hasn't happened yet so it can't be anything to do with that and anyway there's plenty of british people eager to wrap pigs in blankets if only they were given the opportunity. Nothing funny at all about the whinging tweets to whetherspoons about crying children and no lack of insight blah blah. Carry on everyone, this is small fry in the grand scheme of things, it will all be alright

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50821103

I thought spam was going to swing it but wasn’t sure but if we get pigs without blankets then fuck me it’s a game changer

 

[hilts]

I know ..... in the pub last night with a mate who voted leave. He's self employed running a business which repairs , maintains and installs vehicle lifts (the type you see in garages and repair shops). Looks like it will all be done by the end of January he said.

How will it impact you ? I asked

It wont... he replied.

Where do you get your spare parts from then ? I asked

I've a supplier in the Midlands.... I don't carry any stock , I just order what I need for a job and he delivers was the reply.

But where does he get the stock from ?

Don't know.. he said and goes to his van to look at a part for a job today. Comes back ..... Shit it comes from Germany !

Best phone him tomorrow to see what Brexit preparations your supplier has made.. I said.

They'll be able to sort it though wont they? he responds.

Cool story and certainly food for thought.

 

[mcfc1632]

Mate for someone who bottled it on election day, you certainly are larging it now.
Here pussy pussy.

Election day bottler gets hard again.

​

Bottled it?

What do you mean by that?

Genuinely cannot understand - I do not remember posting anything on that day to which you could be referring to

 

[mcfc1632]

Utterly incorrect and a generalisation.

I’m a remain voter and would vote remain every single time of asking but I accept the public wishes to leave and that is what we should do.

With respect - I have see you make this mistake a few times.

Not every such post is aimed at you personally and the fact that you may have shown the character to hold the view that ".....accept the public wishes to leave and that is what we should do." does not mean that a lot of others have not and it will be them, rather than you, that the point is aimed at.

Indeed - otherwise you are also making a generalisation - assuming that your personal stance covers all Remain voters when it clearly doesn't. A lot of Remainers, including some on here have/are indeed reacting as described in @Ardwick Green Blue post.

 

[mcfc1632]

It was a true compromise. Mays attempt to please everyone pleased no one - too Brexity for Remainers, not Brexity enough for leavers. Both sides voted it down and effectively played a game of high stakes poker with leave vs remain. This would appear to have spectacularly back fired on Remainers who had they been a little more conciliatory could have got mays deal through and seen it further amended and watered down to BRINO. Instead they went 'double or quits' and fucked it all up. Silly cunts.

Thank you - you explain the point I was making far better than I did.

And specifically with regards to Corbyn - throughout 2017 -2019, IMO, he abused his position and took the opportunity to use the major issue of our time, Brexit, to further his personal ambition of bringing down the government and installing himself and McDonnell.

And now, because he was so self-serving - the UK faces the genuine prospect of a no-deal Brexit outcome, because, as you say he played:

"........high stakes poker with leave vs remain. This would appear to have spectacularly back fired on Remainers who had they been a little more conciliatory could have got mays deal through and seen it further amended and watered down to BRINO."

So, for me, if we do get a no-deal Brexit - it is largely on him

 

[mcfc1632]

Well said

I highlight a couple of your specific points in an attempt to explain that is just how Leavers viewed our pre-2016 membership of the EU​

Soft Brexit is utterly pointless and always has been.

I’ve never been in favour of it.

The UK being locked into EU legislation without having a say and without being able to trade on our own terms elsewhere, without the EU’s say so? All this without having a seat at the table?

Absolutely fucking not.

It’s remain or we properly leave, none of this half arsed shite.

All this, "...but we had a opt-out' - was just the UK' interests withering away.

Clearly, our 'seat at the table' was not having any effect on the direction of the EU - that was being driven by the ideologues and meant only a delay in our adoption of policies that we did not want.

 

[mcfc1632]

Still waiting for an explanation of what this "ultra soft Brexit" was. Some real revisionism going on already - by the winners! As for "out of touch" you all know you'd have lost a second referendum.

May's deal - as already has been explained to you

And as for: ".....you all know you'd have lost a second referendum."

I was certainly of the view that a 2nd referendum could lead to a Remain vote.

Not necessarily because I believed that there was truth in your repeated expectation that the death of Leavers since the referendum and the increase in the number of young Remainer voters had totally changed the balance - but more due to exhaustion from Brexit and the scare-mongering of the Remainer acolytes of the EU. People wanted to 'GET BREXIT DONE' or at least over - as the subsequent election, surely you must accept, has proven.

Of course this should - if you are a Remainer - emphasise how Corbyn is majorly responsible for the 2nd vote not happening and also will be majorly responsible should his failure to act to secure that lead to a no-deal outcome

 

[mcfc1632]

Mays brexit was pretty soft and may very well have become 'ultra' soft by the time it had been amended and the final fta was done - had it gone through and she remained as PM. I actually think Boris may end up delivering a fairly soft Brexit in the end, but will be more successful at dressing it up as a hard brexit. The real risk of hard brexit now is probably that the EU will fanny about and not believe Boris is prepared to walk away with 'no deal' in a years time.

Again - well explained

 

[Vic]

Some people will have their lives wrecked by this crap.

I'm just not letting those who think it's a good idea start blaming anyone other than the Tory party when it does turn out crap.

until that happens let’s see what happens eh.

all I have seen is people glad there is a bit of certainty now

ftse up pound up.

but if it all goes to shit then have your fun.

Where's the fun in wrecked lives?

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Some people will have their lives wrecked by this crap.

I'm just not letting those who think it's a good idea start blaming anyone other than the Tory party when it does turn out crap.


Where's the fun in wrecked lives?

absolutely none whatsoever but it won’t stop people coming on here or tweeting told you so and taking pleasure from it.

it’s done now we are leaving , people need to just get on with it.

 

[Vic]

Still waiting for an explanation of what this "ultra soft Brexit" was. Some real revisionism going on already - by the winners! As for "out of touch" you all know you'd have lost a second referendum.

An ultra soft Brexit is remaining within the Customs Union or Single Market.

As for your last line, that has to be one of the most naive statements I’ve ever read on here, considering the election we’ve just had.

And I’m a remainer.

And as for: ".....you all know you'd have lost a second referendum."

I was certainly of the view that a 2nd referendum could lead to a Remain vote....

Nice to know I'm not alone in my naivety.

As for the general nonsense that there was ever a soft Brexit (let alone an "ultra soft Brexit") to be had from May, I'm not sure how anyone thinks that. Even if it was offered to Labour she'd never have got it past her own party.

Even on the indicative votes for staying in a customs union and for a confirmatory referendum it was Labour rebels helping to vote those down. (Most LibDems voted against the customs union, so blame them for not compromising - and the SNP who abstained.)

I guess you're all trying to prove by this revisionist nonsense that history is written by the winners.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-47779783

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

Well the good news is that the Speaker has said that Big Ben can ring out on the day of leaving - they just need a word from Ben Mendy to see whether he can sing Auld Land Syne in tune. It'll bring a tear to many an eye!

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Still waiting for an explanation of what this "ultra soft Brexit" was. Some real revisionism going on already - by the winners! As for "out of touch" you all know you'd have lost a second referendum.

After losing every single argument since the referendum result, ie; general elections won by a leave supporting party,
the opposition declaring their intention to honour the referendum result also, then seeing the jaw dropping success of
the BXP in the MEP elections, then a new PM promises an election to break the deadlock on Brexit created by Parliament,
and standing, and shouting, screaming 'GET BREXIT DONE!' holding said election and storming it with a landslide,
you still come out with this utter nonsense.
No doubt what follows will be a frantic exercise in adding up everyone in the population, including babies, prisoners,
foreigners and the insane, umpteen millions kicking the bucket since the vote, and an absolute belief that no remainer whatsoever
has accepted the result at all, and this facile, futile argument will still stagger on.