Another new Brexit thread

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bluethrunthru said:
And most I have met and worked with and/or have worked at NISSAN or in the supply chain have regretted voting Leave ever since - and I have met over 100 of them. For the most part people up here were sick of Labour, bizarrely believed that the biggest threat to their jobs was posed by immigrants ( lowest level of immigrant population in the UK btw ) but what they were doing was in effect "sticking to to the man" - they wanted to lodge a protest and were shocked by what happened in the Referendum.

The GE was different - that was about how Corbyn was portrayed and many of them didn't believe yet again that we would leave the EU without having to recourse to a 2nd Referendum. In February I was working in Gateshead and a lass in the office had a husband who works there and is a shop steward and she was worried because he had been warned by Unite the plant will close on a No Deal result.

Neighbour over the road from me works in the supply chain says the vibes they get are the same. And that was before Covid and the dramatic fall in demand. If countries in the EU have struggling economies and rising unemployment then in the event of a No Deal the pressure will be to repatriate those jobs and build cars at home - that really threatens NISSAN as Renault and the French Govt are a major shareholder. Vauxhall at Ellesmere Port owned PSA and the French Govt ( production of the shared platform van at Luton is already set to end ) - MINI can go home to Germany - that way their Govts and companies bolster their own economies at the expense of ours - but hey why should they bother about the prospects for workers in a country that opted to leave the EU and try and start up as the only country in the world to trade just about solely on WTO rules?
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EU trade minister Phil Hogan has put himself down for the vacant Director General of the WTO position. That’d lead to some mouth frothing, no doubt....
 
Saddleworth2 said:
All bollocks I’m afraid mate. You have a very vivid imagination that you project these thoughts as my own. My single point in this exchange is the incompetence and dishonesty of our government nothing more, nothing less. You seem to agree that is the case so what the hell are you expanding it for. So it’s clear I accept Brexit is happening. I want a deal that is fair to both parties. Now really, do you have to be so confrontational?
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Just read your post again - and yes, you say...………...

"My single point in this exchange is the incompetence and dishonesty of our government nothing more, nothing less. You seem to agree that is the case so what the hell are you expanding it for."

Ok fair enough - despite insinuations from others I have zero love for Johnson or his cabinet. For me they get two massive accolades...…..

1. They have stopped the treacherous May appeasement and may actually get us genuinely out of the EU

2. They stopped Corbyn/McDonnell getting into power

Beyond those outcomes I care little for Johnson or his government - I just want continuity until Brexit is (properly/fully) done.

So my reaction was because for me these matters are clear and separate - whereas you seem to be conflating them

My points have been that Johnson's incompetence is a temporary matter and he can be fucked off. That should not muddle the importance of a good Brexit outcome - whereas you seemed to be conflating the issues, as if Brexit should be perhaps paused because of Johnson's incompetence. Once that happens the road to getting Brexit stopped is open again.

Your posts still read that way - so I retain those views - but I can accept that I was a bit 'abrupt' in my responses.
 
Vic said:
It's actually worse now. Manufacturers everywhere will be looking for national rather than international supply chains. So not only will UK component firms face tariffs, they will face buyers wanting to buy local. (So will UK manufacturers, but there will be fewer of them. No matter, the Brexit economics guru Prof Minford predicted we'd give up making things - and growing food.)
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So - why did Nissan chose Sunderland over Barcelona?
 
BlueAnorak said:
Personally I dont think they will budge, so there won't be a treaty when we exit transition on the 31st December.
The UK must be seen to be punished. We won't be of course as Covid-19 means anything we have to spend to deal with the issue will be a mere bagatelle compared to the rest. The EU will simply shoot themselves in the foot.
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Probably - but we must be able to a) determine our own key policies as part of managing recovery and not be controlled by the EU who will inhibit the UK recovery and b) not be pouring more £billions into the EU that we need to invest in recovery in the UK

So in the here and now - especially given the need to recover from CV-19 - No-Deal is dramatically better than any deal that includes EU controls

Simples really
 
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bluethrunthru said:
I am puzzled why we are supposed to die in a ditch over something that is such a tiny percentage of our economy..............oh no its come back to me - populist jingosim

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-52898059?
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You have not a clue about negotiations do you?

You are looking at this from the wrong end of the telescope

How many jobs are related to the fishing industry in just France alone??

You do know don't you?

It can be very helpful in negotiations to have full control over something that is not essential to you - but is to the other party

As I said...……….

You have not a clue about negotiations do you?
 
mcfc1632 said:
You have not a clue about negotiations do you?

You are looking at this from the wrong end of the telescope

How many jobs are related to the fishing industry in just France alone??

You do know don't you?

It can be very helpful in negotiations to have full control over something that is not essential to you - but is to the other party

As I said...……….

You have not a clue about negotiations do you?
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thankfully there are only fish in British waters and none stray even 1 cm beyond the territorial limit.....................
 
Anyone who thinks we can get 'Brexit done' with any sort of an agreement with anyone that will be of benefit to this country only has to look at the shambles of their handling of this virus to be sadly disillusioned.
 
bluethrunthru said:
thankfully there are only fish in British waters and none stray even 1 cm beyond the territorial limit.....................
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You obviously think that is a clever comment - so please, help the rest of us out...…….

Why?

What point are you seeking to make?
 
west didsblue said:
Barcelona makes trucks. Sunderland makes cars. They weren’t in competition with each other.
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Well they are going to be building Renault cars in Sunderland as well from now on, but I'm sure you'll ignore it.
The Barcelona plant closure is, I grant you more likely to do with the EU trade deal with Japan.
The Sunderland plant is Nissan's most efficient - which is a major plus for keeping it open.
 
BlueAnorak said:
Well they are going to be building Renault cars in Sunderland as well from now on, but I'm sure you'll ignore it.
The Barcelona plant closure is, I grant you more likely to do with the EU trade deal with Japan.
The Sunderland plant is Nissan's most efficient - which is a major plus on it's part.
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If its a No Deal the Mackems are building nowt - that was made clear today. Over 70% of what they make is exported. Margins are tight so its only the efficiency within a single market that makes it remotely profitable. Add 10% to costs and it dies. Thats the NISSAN position today.
 
mcfc1632 said:
You obviously think that is a clever comment - so please, help the rest of us out...…….

Why?

What point are you seeking to make?
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Just pointing out the stupidity of the argument. The fish aren't corralled in UK waters - boats can lie offshore and pick up all the fish they want just outside territorial waters. I am not sure how clever you are but just to point out fish swim in water - swimming = movement.
 
Fred_Quimby said:
Anyone who thinks we can get 'Brexit done' with any sort of an agreement with anyone that will be of benefit to this country only has to look at the shambles of their handling of this virus to be sadly disillusioned.
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You really shouldn't mix the things up

Let's all agree that this government are incompetent

But in respect of Brexit - incompetence would be getting snared up in EU controls - so that is a risk

But if we do break free and the next government is Labour - then so what

Done properly now - Brexit is for the rest of our lives - not just for a parliamentary term

So let's not mix up the 2 issues for the purpose of 'political convenience'
 
mcfc1632 said:
You really shouldn't mix the things up

Let's all agree that this government are incompetent

But in respect of Brexit - incompetence would be getting snared up in EU controls - so that is a risk

But if we do break free and the next government is Labour - then so what

Done properly now - Brexit is for the rest of our lives - not just for a parliamentary term

So let's not mix up the 2 issues for the purpose of 'political convenience'
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Do you think that this incompetent government will discover hidden talents when it comes to negotiating brexit? Is there not a bit more to incompetence than getting snared up in EU controls?
 
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