Another new Brexit thread

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

 

[bluethrunthru]

Prominent pro-Leave think tank gets cold feet - this is the product of their last quarter of an hour - looks like a penny has dropped

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Prominent pro-Leave think tank gets cold feet - this is the product of their last quarter of an hour - looks like a penny has dropped

Leaves are going to have to pick a side in their own civil war.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Promises promises

 

[west didsblue]

Prominent pro-Leave think tank gets cold feet - this is the product of their last quarter of an hour - looks like a penny has dropped

Another bunch of arseholes trying to pin the blame for the mess on Remainers.
At least they have come to the realisation that it’s a total fuck up, but they need to also accept that they’re as culpable as every other Brexiteer.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Dunno about you but we can't move for the number of Turks here in North Yorkshire ...

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Just worth noting that if the brexiteers had their way we'd have been out two years ago, but probably with some BRINO arrangement. I'm not sure it was worth the wait, parliamentary process, and a GE that delivered BJ and cabinet ideologically committed to hard brexit - but thank you all anyway. Leavers did the heavy lifting, but without remainers and remain parliamentarians there is no way we could have got to where we are now. As they might say on twitter which as we know is where all the best stuff is - #thankyou #allinthistogether

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Just worth noting that if the brexiteers had their way we'd have been out two years ago, but probably with some BRINO arrangement. I'm not sure it was worth the wait, parliamentary process, and a GE that delivered BJ and cabinet ideologically committed to hard brexit - but thank you all anyway. Leavers did the heavy lifting, but without remainers and remain parliamentarians there is no way we could have got to where we are now. As they might say on twitter which as we know is where all the best stuff is - #thankyou #allinthistogether

ouch.

don’t forget All of this also turned many lifelong labour supporters to vote Tory for the first time as well. Some Skills that.

thanks Gina .

 

[Metal Biker]

Just worth noting that if the brexiteers had their way we'd have been out two years ago, but probably with some BRINO arrangement. I'm not sure it was worth the wait, parliamentary process, and a GE that delivered BJ and cabinet ideologically committed to hard brexit - but thank you all anyway. Leavers did the heavy lifting, but without remainers and remain parliamentarians there is no way we could have got to where we are now. As they might say on twitter which as we know is where all the best stuff is - #thankyou #allinthistogether

All those ERG MP's who voted against it were apparently more responsible than the 50 or so SNP MP's and hundreds of Labour/Lib Dem MP's who also voted against May's WA. If we were leaving, remainers had the opportunity to leave on the terms they wanted two years ago... and they voted against it because they saw some slim chance of remaining. They had their chance and they fucked it, on the belief the public were on their side in a future election. December 2019 put paid to that idea.

But yeah, 'No deal' is all down to those who voted brexit. You gotta love the logic on display here at times! ;)

 

[bluethrunthru]

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

All those ERG MP's who voted against it were apparently more responsible than the 50 or so SNP MP's and hundreds of Labour/Lib Dem MP's who also voted against May's WA. If we were leaving, remainers had the opportunity to leave on the terms they wanted two years ago... and they voted against it because they saw some slim chance of remaining. They had their chance and they fucked it, on the belief the public were on their side in a future election. December 2019 put paid to that idea.

But yeah, 'No deal' is all down to those who voted brexit. You gotta love the logic on display here at times! ;)

yeah but to be fair to them They did have their Very own brexit dividend.

they all had their larders full with spam, beans and bog rolls ready for brexit doom in January , only to be ahead of the game when Covid hit.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

All those ERG MP's who voted against it were apparently more responsible than the 50 or so SNP MP's and hundreds of Labour/Lib Dem MP's who also voted against May's WA. If we were leaving, remainers had the opportunity to leave on the terms they wanted two years ago... and they voted against it because they saw some slim chance of remaining. They had their chance and they fucked it, on the belief the public were on their side in a future election. December 2019 put paid to that idea.

But yeah, 'No deal' is all down to those who voted brexit. You gotta love the logic on display here at times! ;)

All of a sudden they've suffered collective memory loss about the giddy excitement of the amendments tabled by Letwin & Kyle - ably assisted by the speaker of the house.

 

[Vic]

Another bunch of arseholes trying to pin the blame for the mess on Remainers.
At least they have come to the realisation that it’s a total fuck up, but they need to also accept that they’re as culpable as every other Brexiteer.

I'm not sure they are - they had a comprehensive programme (including staying in the EEA) but it was futile in the face of the Tory headbangers. Looking at some tweets from "LeaveHQ" I don't like their other views - but they seem remarkably coy about who they are! It was an offshoot of the "Referendum Planning Group" - clearly distinct from all the Leavers who hadn't planned anything - and several groups were the alliance (Campaign for an Independent Britain, The Bruges Group, The EU Referendum Blog, the think tank Futurus and The Harrogate Agenda, and Restore Britain’s Fish). Whether they all are still of one mind is another matter, but they had a good go at the Brexit Party's lies before the GE - and lo and behold, they are now adopted by Johnson as his own lies.

For the most part the provisions within the agreement relate only to the transition which is effectively non-voting membership of the EU. Nothing much much changes. We always anticipated this, recognising that Brexit is a process rather than an event. There are over three hundred areas of technical cooperation which need alternative arrangements and we have long taken the view that crashing out without a deal would lead to chaos and uncertainty.

There are risks associated with such a transition but they are overstated and certainly they do not outweigh the political and economic risks that come with no deal. There is plenty of "project fear" around but there's no disputing the EU's official legal position on the UK's status in their markets should we leave without a deal. It makes for grim reading. No one should be in a hurry to inflict that kind of damage. Any pragmatist would recognise that our departure from a decades old system of government would require transitional arrangements not only to reassure British business but also to cushion the blow. Furthermore, the UK needs to be a close collaborative partner of the EU. We may not wish to be members but we do wish to be allies and friends. For that to happen we need a managed and amicable departure - not the zero sum game of 'no deal' that the Brexit Party demands.

Cynically they seek to whip up opposition to the deal, pointing to provisions within the withdrawal agreement, particularly those concerned with the "level playing field". As it happens the provisions are a relatively low bar and shouldn't present any major obstacle to the UK pursuing its own destiny. Moreover we do not wish to compete by entering a race to the bottom.

It should also be noted that these provisions exist in every EU FTA and there is no way the EU would ever enter an agreement without them. It didn't make an exception for Canada and will not do so for the UK.

See - a sensible and realistic view of the negotiations and our unrealistic expectations. Gosh - they must be Barnier sycophants rather than Leaver realists.

 

[BlueHammer85]

just catching up, just wanted to know - since we voted to leave over 4 years ago, what benefits of this vote has been made to our nation ?

 

[mcfc1632]

The breathtaking arrogance of those that chose to defy their own constituencies, and hypocrisy of those that resigned their party whip but wouldn’t subject themselves to democracy via a by-election was punished at the ballot box last December. They could have had a soft Brexit/brino with May but decided to go double or quits and lost - now it's everyone else's fault.

Absolutely spot om

I find the Remainer ability to seek to absolve themselves from any accountability and future responsibility both fascinating and amusing;-)

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

just catching up, just wanted to know - since we voted to leave over 4 years ago, what benefits of this vote has been made to our nation ?

Not sure, but it seems the decision of 40 years before wasn't that popular when it came to the referendum.

 

[Vic]

All those ERG MP's who voted against it were apparently more responsible than the 50 or so SNP MP's and hundreds of Labour/Lib Dem MP's who also voted against May's WA. If we were leaving, remainers had the opportunity to leave on the terms they wanted two years ago... and they voted against it because they saw some slim chance of remaining. They had their chance and they fucked it, on the belief the public were on their side in a future election. December 2019 put paid to that idea.

But yeah, 'No deal' is all down to those who voted brexit. You gotta love the logic on display here at times! ;)

... in the belief that that the public would vote Remain in a second referendum. The GE - with the LibDems throwing Corbyn under the bus instead of cooperating - was a bad miscalculation.

But tell me this - if it is the Remainers' fault, are you all saying May's WA was a good thing? It wasn't a free trade agreement, so how would anyone know if it was a good thing? Are you all now admitting that where we are is a damaging mess for the UK? (This is not looking back to see whether we could have gone over the cliff with a bit of a parachute, it's about going over the cliff with no parachute and no idea whatsoever what's at the bottom.)

 

[bluethrunthru]

just catching up, just wanted to know - since we voted to leave over 4 years ago, what benefits of this vote has been made to our nation ?

go to your sock drawer, empty your sock drawer completely, close your sock drawer and count to 30. Reopen the sock drawer - everything you see in that drawer is more than any benefits accrued so far because you still at least have your socks albeit not in a drawer.

 

[mcfc1632]

Make your own mind up mate - I don't have the stats to hand on who repeatedly blocked May's deal. The ERG probably did too. All I'm saying is there was a chance for compromise, sensible brexit, soft Brexit or whatever you want to call it. It was voted down by those who wanted something else. If that something else was a hard/no deal then they voted the right way, or at least cleverly from a strategic point of view. Those voting it down to force a remain /revoke position shot themselves in the foot which is not clever.

Again - spot on

You see on here attempts by Remainers to try and hide behind - '...it was the ERG wot done it...."'

As obviously simplistic as it is incorrect - but it is something that they can try and hide behind

If May's (worse than) BRINO deal had been supported by Remainers then the ERG would have been rendered utterly irrelevant

They doubled down and sought to undermine democracy - you reap what you sow seems appropriate

I have pointed out the inconvenient truth that - should be indeed end up with a Hard-Brexit - then Corbyn, Grieve, Soubry etc. will have to accept their share of 'credit'

Judging by the responses I have received - it appears to be one of the more uncomfortable truths for Remainers to face up to

 

[mcfc1632]

Owned :-)

I'm Spartacus;-)


(along with Corbyn, Bercow, Grieve, Soubry, Starmer, etc. etc)