Another new Brexit thread

[Vic]

Watch what? No Brexiter on here is bothered about reality.

They're just taking cues from the liars, and accepting that wasting money is "investment". See the odious Gove:

“We are taking back control of our borders, and leaving the single market and the customs union at the end of this year bringing both changes and significant opportunities for which we all need to prepare. That is why we are announcing this major package of investment today.

“With or without further agreement with the EU, this £705 million will ensure that the necessary infrastructure, tech and border personnel are in place so that our traders and the border industry are able to manage the changes and seize the opportunities as we lay the foundations for the world’s most effective and secure border.”

It's Orwellian - what "significant opportunities"? What can we do on January 1st that we couldn't do in the customs union?

A secure border 20 miles from the coast? On a motorway with umpteen exits? Either he's stupid or his intended audience is.

 

[Vic]

I thought this was worth copying from the Huawei thread...

Brexit has turned us into the spitroasted bitch of USA and China. We'd better get used to it.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Nah - I would be on the Southern side - not with all those criminal types up in the North

Some of the guys on here are starting to have me convinced that I would be better off out of the UK ​

Tempted to just while away the time observing just how bad the UK gets from a safe distance, whilst watching CITY in the local pub and popping back for the big games. I could spend my time just soaking up the sun, drinking beer and eating super food - and.....

If it all goes to shit for the UK - I will be sure to pop on and express my thanks to you and a few others for influencing my life choices.

Must cost you a fortune in face masks ..... having to wear two at the same time.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

A suitable case for treatment.



So we are committing self-harm and you are getting kicks from people saying this self-harm is stupid.

Oh look, I am stabbing myself in the eye because I promised to do it and I'm laughing at the people who think I should be in a straitjacket.

(Then someone eise comes in to say you won't change a madman's mind by telling him he's mad.)

Look mate, I'm very sorry that because you lost the referendum, MEP elections and 2 General Elections,
that all, regrettably, resulted in complete rejections, and that you are committing self harm.
It's not too late to seek help, and these days, there's not any stigma about seeing a shrink,
do it, we're with you all the way.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Look mate, I'm very sorry that because you lost the referendum, MEP elections and 2 General Elections,
that all, regrettably, resulted in complete rejections, and that you are committing self harm.
It's not too late to seek help, and these days, there's not any stigma about seeing a shrink,
do it, we're with you all the way.

Stop it.

they are clever than us and it’s so obvious leaving the EU is going to be an absolute disaster for the uk , it’s just that they struggled to make their argument clearly in all those elections , well they made it very clearly and it’s just that thick racists don’t listen.

or maybe people don’t like being called thick racist gammons all the time as part of a debate , so dig in to their view, but hey every day is a school day....

 

[blueinsa]

or maybe people don’t like being called thick racist gammons all the time as part of a debate , so dig in to their view, but hey every day is a school day....

I voted for brexit but will readily admit, this is now very much about simply not letting these people have their own way.

 

[Vic]

Stop it.

they are clever than us and it’s so obvious leaving the EU is going to be an absolute disaster for the uk , it’s just that they struggled to make their argument clearly in all those elections , well they made it very clearly and it’s just that thick racists don’t listen.

I'm not going to agree with the very last bit and would never have put it in those terms but that is very perceptive.

 

[Vic]

I voted for brexit but will readily admit, this is now very much about simply not letting these people have their own way.

No shit sherlock.

Lionel Shriver: for Remainers it's about "we were right", for Leavers it's "we won".

I can't recall a clearer statement that no damage to the UK is so bad that it is not worth it, rather than to let common sense prevail.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Again - spot on

You see on here attempts by Remainers to try and hide behind - '...it was the ERG wot done it...."'

As obviously simplistic as it is incorrect - but it is something that they can try and hide behind

If May's (worse than) BRINO deal had been supported by Remainers then the ERG would have been rendered utterly irrelevant

They doubled down and sought to undermine democracy - you reap what you sow seems appropriate

I have pointed out the inconvenient truth that - should be indeed end up with a Hard-Brexit - then Corbyn, Grieve, Soubry etc. will have to accept their share of 'credit'

Judging by the responses I have received - it appears to be one of the more uncomfortable truths for Remainers to face up to

As I forecast many months age ..... the Brexiteers now realising what an absolute shit show this is going to be are now trying to shift the blame onto those that wanted to remain.

I have been quiet over the last few weeks as I am now told that i wont be able to retire to France as I wanted . Im devastated ..... so thanks to all the Leavers.

 

[blueinsa]

No shit sherlock.

Lionel Shriver: for Remainers it's about "we were right", for Leavers it's "we won".

I can't recall a clearer statement that no damage to the UK is so bad that it is not worth it, rather than to let common sense prevail.

Accept then that your remain at all costs stance might actually not be for the best Vic.

For leavers you can also add, "we were right".

Remainers done have sole ownership of that opinion as shocking as that might be to you.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

That's like asking "who's winning the match?" after kick-off.

Let us deal with the negotiations with the EU first, eh!

You've had four years .... please enlighten us as to what 'progress' the Tories have made?


(See what I did there .... managed to get 'progress' and 'Tories' in the same sentence..... grammatical wizardry.)

 

[blueinsa]

I have been quiet over the last few weeks as I am now told that i wont be able to retire to France as I wanted . Im devastated ..... so thanks to all the Leavers.

Venezuela is a better fit anyway.

 

[Vic]

Accept then that your remain at all costs stance might actually not be for the best Vic.

For leavers you can also add, "we were right".

Remainers done have sole ownership of that opinion as shocking as that might be to you.

What were Leavers right about?

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

What were Leavers right about?

the argument and therefore winning the elections ?

 

[blueinsa]

j

What were Leavers right about?

What have remainers been right about Vic?

I've yet to see any of the project fear predictions come true?

 

[inbetween]

As I forecast many months age ..... the Brexiteers now realising what an absolute shit show this is going to be are now trying to shift the blame onto those that wanted to remain.

I have been quiet over the last few weeks as I am now told that i wont be able to retire to France as I wanted . Im devastated ..... so thanks to all the Leavers.

It's not a case of just blame the leavers, the leavers voted for what they wanted and believed in as did you. These sort of statements are precisely why the country has been so divided on the issue.

The people to blame for this is everyone because the entire country voted and the entire country is heading for whatever sits ahead of us. Remainers clearly didn't put forward a compelling argument and leave well they are in a combination of groups, some have been duped of course but some genuinely have a good point to vote leave.

I voted remain but I have accepted the decision, I have accepted whatever consequences come our way and we always have the option of holding politicians to account for it. If the Tories precide over years of misery and economic collapse due to Brexit, they will own that mess.

From a remain point of view, remain has failed, remain failed to put forward a mitigation scenario or even anything resembling a soft-Brexit. Instead it spent years trying to cancel Brexit through technicalities and so pissed off so many people that those people decided to vote in the largest majority Tory government in decades.

We've all moved on and we have to accept that whatever is coming is a consequence of how we have ALL behaved and dealt with this subject over the last 5 years.

 

[Vic]

...From a remain point of view, remain has failed, remain failed to put forward a mitigation scenario or even anything resembling a soft-Brexit. Instead it spent years trying to cancel Brexit through technicalities and so pissed off so many people that those people decided to vote in the largest majority Tory government in decades....

Well that's just not true.

The official Leave campaign put forward a soft Brexit. "We will still be in a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border." Why would Remain need anything different?

In the Parliamentary indicative votes, the Customs Union failed by only three votes and it would have sailed through if the SNP hadn't abstained (I can't remember why they did). The vast majority of Tory MPs voted against any "soft" Brexit (softer than May's deal that they couldn't get through because the ERG bastards thought it was too soft).

Anyway this whole crap about blaming Remainers for the mess of Brexit tells us one clear thing.

You all think Brexit is a mess and someone must be blamed.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

The people to blame for this is everyone because the entire country voted and the entire country is heading for whatever sits ahead of us.

This is a hot take. The people to blame are leavers 100%. There are degrees to which people support brexit but ultimately all blame resides with those that did. Remainers are not to blame in any way.

 

[inbetween]

Well that's just not true.

The official Leave campaign put forward a soft Brexit. "We will still be in a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border." Why would Remain need anything different?

In the Parliamentary indicative votes, the Customs Union failed by only three votes and it would have sailed through if the SNP hadn't abstained (I can't remember why they did). The vast majority of Tory MPs voted against any "soft" Brexit (softer than May's deal that they couldn't get through because the ERG bastards thought it was too soft).

Anyway this whole crap about blaming Remainers for the mess of Brexit tells us one clear thing.

You all think Brexit is a mess and someone must be blamed.

On the SNP side, that's exactly my point and the indicative votes showed that Parliament was completely unwilling and also unable to accept any form of Brexit. The indicative votes should of been used to eliminate options until an option was found and not to eliminate Brexit.

Again, that indecision and obstruction is what gave us an election that resulted in the largest Tory majority in decades.

If everyone decided right from day one to work together towards a Brexit (AND vote for it) then the fringe mobs like the ERG would be powerless.

I mean christ, the Tories didn't even have a majority until last year?!? Where was Parliament between 2016 and December 2020??

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

You all think Brexit is a mess and someone must be blamed.

Fully agree with this. As i have said - give it to early 2021 and it will be a monumental disaster by all accounts.